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Post by algardunraven on Nov 5, 2015 18:14:01 GMT
I wasn't sure if this is where I should post this, so if this needs to be moved, let me know.
I have been toying with the idea of making a projector tabletop. Hanging the projector from the ceiling and projecting the terrain/dungeon onto the table. I have seen a couple of examples on youtube and was wondering if anyone here has used one? Some of them use their computer with Photoshop or Gimp and do different layers to do the fog of war and other effects. I don't have much experience with either program but would be willing to invest the time to learn. I don't think I would use it all the time (due to the fact that I wouldn't get to craft much then) but it would be a nice change of pace every now and then and it looks really cool! Any input would be appreciated. Also if this has been discussed earlier or somewhere else please let me know. Thanks Algardunraven
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Post by skunkape on Nov 5, 2015 18:18:20 GMT
A couple of gaming projection tables I've seen have mounted the projector underneath so that you wouldn't interfere with the image. I'm very interested in doing the same, not sure if I'll do it overhead or underneath, but I'll be doing something similar when I finally get my gaming room back. I'm hoping for sometime after the first quarter of 2016.
When I finally manage to get my done, I'll be taking pictures of the construction and final product.
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Post by Meph on Nov 5, 2015 21:49:44 GMT
I have considered it for my gaming room also but instead of a projector I would probably flush mount a LED Tv in the table. Richer colors and never in the way. Would just cover the table with either glass or lexan. While it allows a functionality I don't know if the end result would have the same wow factor that physical 3d tiles do.
I am currently using a 46" LCD in my game room hooked up to a laptop to display in game maps and I like it for a visual aid.
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Post by johnp on Nov 5, 2015 22:09:12 GMT
Yeah, been thinking about this, too. But I would use it with my 3d terrain, for flowing water, lava, deep canyons and other stuff that would be difficult or impossible to craft. For now I'm just gonna use an iPad where needed, since I have not found any cheap screens and I like the way my table looks. The problem with a projector is that the lights have to be fairly dim, to make the picture crisp enough. It can be difficult to control the shadows if used with 3d terrain. The projected image is projected onto the miniatures and terrain, which is gonna mess up the paintjob. Unless you do it from underneath the table, but that will limit the size of the projected image compared to a ceiling mounted approach.
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Post by adamsouza on Nov 6, 2015 0:15:28 GMT
I would probably do what Meph suggested and just use a LCD TV. The screen sizes are huge, and they get cheaper every year.
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Post by algardunraven on Nov 6, 2015 1:09:10 GMT
I will investigate an LCD tv. As far as software goes, has anyone had any experience with Gimp? Any leads on the best way to learn how to use it?
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Post by DnDPaladin on Nov 6, 2015 3:05:48 GMT
if you are interested... www.d20srd.org/extras/tabletop_projection/a projector is better, bigger definition... but an 60 inch flat screen does the trick too. the biggest problem with the TV though, is brightness. it may give the players headaches because they are too close to the TV. a projector doesn'T have that problem unless you start looking directly at the lamp. some programs helps with terrain as they even go for fog of war. giving the view of each characters turn. so there is definitely some fun to have with screen table top !
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Post by johnp on Nov 6, 2015 5:44:28 GMT
How about using map editors from PC games. For real animated fog or just the usual style. I know some RPG's have some nice editors, with lots of building blocks. Come to think of it, isn't there some form of map/dungeon creation software officially released by the D&D brand? It is fairly easy to do multiple layers in gimp, keep the fog as the top layer and just erase with the eraser tool as the party explores.
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Post by ogrestamp on Nov 6, 2015 7:50:58 GMT
If you had a screen mounted on the table, you would have to be careful about damaging it. Also, they give off a lot of heat. May not be a problem in the winter time but that would really be a factor while playing in the middle of summer.
Another cool idea would be to have a projector mounted towards one or more walls. So when the party is in the countryside, have the appropriate landscape as an enhancer.
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Post by johnp on Nov 6, 2015 13:28:40 GMT
With a projector, there is also the noise from the fans to consider. Plus the heat issues. I have 5 year old Sony, which at the time had a price of 3000 usd. It's noisy as hell and the bulb alone uses 200 watt. That means 200 watts of heat being blown, in my case, directly in the direction of the projected image. Far more heat in the room than most tv's from the last 5 years. LED tv's would be the way to go, if no noise and almost no heat is desirable. Furthermore, many projectors need alot of distance, to project a large image, this off course is depending on the model. If a crisp image is what you want, then a dark room is what you need. Especially for dark areas like shadows. It will never be black on the table, unless it's black when you just look at it, without the projector on. Meaning the lights will have to be very dim. Sometimes bright colors next to dark, fools the eye to believing it's actually black(greyish). Then again, LED tv's got their own problems with black, but in a well lit room, no projector stand a chance against tv's. Borh LED, LCD and Plasmas. If pitch black is what you want, then Plasma is the best, but they run hotter than LED's. There are also some cheap LED projector on the market, but there is a reason for that, which is sucky picture quality.
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Post by l7arkness on Nov 6, 2015 13:47:17 GMT
I've done a lot of research on this project actually, i personal recommend a flat screen TV, pretty much anything from the last 4 years will do for your purposes. I do not suggest anything over 40" ( Insignia 32")for a few reasons if you don't build it directly into a table (The way i would suggest) you can easily pick it up and move it, another good reason is price your going to be abusing it more than a normal TV. Regarding programs i would personally suggest Paint.net as a alternative to gimp, I find it a lot more user friendly than gimp Non TV Table
TV Table Top
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Post by adamsouza on Nov 6, 2015 14:57:48 GMT
I wish I hadn't clicked on that link. Now I'm staring at a 32" LCD TV I hardly use an wondering if I'd get more use out of it as a gaming surface.
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Post by l7arkness on Nov 6, 2015 16:04:13 GMT
I wish I hadn't clicked on that link. Now I'm staring at a 32" LCD TV I hardly use an wondering if I'd get more use out of it as a gaming surface. You totally can for about 30 bucks in wood and plastic, you know you want to
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Post by skunkape on Nov 6, 2015 18:53:12 GMT
Here is a Youtube video of a gaming table where they project the image from underneath.
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Post by adamantinedragon on Nov 7, 2015 5:45:38 GMT
I have a projector table. It's in storage right now. I chose to project from underneath the table, using a mirror, to avoid shadows. My gaming group loved it, but on occasion someone would accidentally kick the mirror stand and I'd have to lean under the table to put it back in position. Still, I ran some of our best campaigns using that setup. To do it I put a thin sheet of paper between two sheets of plexiglass to use as the screen. You have to have a projector or a computer that will allow you to mirror-reverse the image so you get the proper orientation, or else do all you maps that way.
I built it about six years ago. I used it heavily for about four years, then I had to dismantle my gaming room and we used it for a year or so at one of my gamer friend's house, but eventually it got moved back down to my basement, and now that I've moved to a new state, it's in storage while our retirement house is being built.
If I were to do it over again, I'd probably just get a nice, cheap LCD TV, say 32" or slightly bigger, and cut a piece of plexiglass to put over the screen to protect it, seal it with tape or with silicon caulk, and just lay it down on the table. Much easier, no mirrors, no mounting, but you would have to be more careful about dropping heavy things on it.
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Post by algardunraven on Nov 7, 2015 15:39:14 GMT
I am investigating the LCD TV method. I will talk with my group and see if they want to try this. The only bad possibility is that if I buy the TV and we end up not liking it, I'm out the money for the TV. But I'm sure I can find a use for it somewhere. Please keep the comments coming, negative or positive if you have them. The more the better.
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Post by runningwolf on Nov 7, 2015 15:52:16 GMT
I will investigate an LCD tv. As far as software goes, has anyone had any experience with Gimp? Any leads on the best way to learn how to use it? I use GIMP, like it for three reason. First off it's free and open source. Second there are tons of tutorials and user support (and once you get used to the menus you can do almost anything that PhotoShop can do). Third (for me) it's a lot easier to use because it doesn't come loaded with bells and whistles I'll never need to use. I do know there are a ton of tutorials on mapping (using GIMP) on the cartographer's guild web page. Not just tutorials but a lot of good over tips and maps other people have made. When I look for tutorials on YouTube I tend to get a few million hits for gimp .
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Post by DnDPaladin on Nov 8, 2015 18:21:54 GMT
JohnP: there are better ways for fogging... many softwares designed for this purposes exists. you just add your tokens on the map and the sftwares generates the fog on the fly against he tokens. so basically you can even put token walls and all and then put up tokens of your creatures and players and thats it, the program does it for you.
the biggest problem with phtoshop and the likes, is that if you wanna play with true fog of war you ahve to remove areas and add back fog to others and that takes up on your gaming time. thats why i'd check for a program that can do it for me, that way i dont lose time on that.
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Post by l7arkness on Nov 9, 2015 0:11:20 GMT
JohnP: there are better ways for fogging... many softwares designed for this purposes exists. you just add your tokens on the map and the sftwares generates the fog on the fly against he tokens. so basically you can even put token walls and all and then put up tokens of your creatures and players and thats it, the program does it for you. the biggest problem with phtoshop and the likes, is that if you wanna play with true fog of war you ahve to remove areas and add back fog to others and that takes up on your gaming time. thats why i'd check for a program that can do it for me, that way i dont lose time on that. Easiest way to do fog of war is layers either multiple layers or one single layer that you just use a eraser tool to slowly remove the parts you need
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Post by algardunraven on Nov 9, 2015 2:41:20 GMT
I will take a look at Gimp and Paint.net. Thanks for the input. Keep it coming if you have any other suggestions or input. If anyone has any samples (pics or video) of either program, by all means post them here. I am interested in using fog of war as I don't like putting dark pieces of paper to cover things up. Especially if I'm using a TV or projected image. Has anyone tried this: pyromancers.com or rptools.net/ I found these online and was wondering if anyone had any experience with them. By the way, where do I find Paint.net?
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