I have been playtesting these rules and they have worked very well for replacing measuring sticks at my table. I have found the rules are more immersive and make combats go faster. DM's Craft #88 will be uploaded tonight and show the rules in action.
Rules for measureless and gridless Combats in D&D
Rounds are broken into movement phase and action phase for each side of a conflict. The idea is to simulate everyone moving at once and not the conga-line mentality of most games.
Characters can move any amount within reason.
Obstacles that call for checks may cause the model to not move as far as they intended.
An enemy that moves in melee range of you means that you are “engaged”.
Being “engaged” stops your movement for the round.
Characters and enemies can intercept each other if they have not yet moved or are not engaged.
Intercepting a character or enemy that is running away gives the interceptor disadvantage unless the character is running from being previously engaged. Example-a character or enemy that was not in melee and decided to run.
Characters or enemies can use ranged at will attacks in the movement phase (snap fire) but lose their action in the action phase.
Charging characters or enemies can attack when they charge (in movement phase) but can be intercepted and must fight the intercepting enemy.
Attacks of opportunity act as normal and can be liberalized to include a general area at DM discretion.
Encounter powers and daily powers can only be used in the action phase.
Characters can use their standard action, (in the action phase) as a move if they had not been “engaged” that round.
Couple of questions about this rule set.(in the 4E framework)
1. I'm assuming you can use minor actions at any time pending you haven't done something to end your turn like charging. 2. When you intercept an enemy that is leaving being engaged, by "disadvantage" do you mean like D&D next disadvantage or something else. 3. Halting movement by intercepting an enemy seems very similar to the 4e fighters combat superiority class skill except every one gets it(slightly less effective without the Wis bonus to hit). How do you balance that verses other defenders? 4. How does shifting fit into the intercepting and being "engaged" concept.
Besides those things I'm confused on this sounds kinda great and I'm having my players all view your video to see their opinion's.
Last Edit: Feb 5, 2014 15:59:28 GMT by kaymann: spelling
I like the phase idea as far measureless my group has let that slide for most things anyhow. So I will try these out on my next game. In 2e I've got less to deal with no at will things but I could see a knocked arrow being snap fired or a simple cantrip being cast that way if the caster is free and not still chanting from a prior spell.
1. you can use minor actions as normal. 2. I use the "next" advantage and disadvantage in my games but you could easily substitute +2/-2 3.I don't balance it...it is just less effective for other classes. You could also have players or monsters use other defenses for interception like a thief might use Reflex. 4.Shifting still works to avoid Attacks of Opportunity but you can not shift the round you are engaged. A person shifting away on the next turn could avoid the AoO but the attacker could still intercept.
There are situations that will require DM judgement in this system but my group and I have a good time with it.
I don't see disliking it as being close minded. I also dislike it. There have been other thing presented by yourself and others I have found useful, but the measureless as presented does not appeal to me.
As I say in the vid intro it will not appeal to those who like exactness or want to stick to the rules as written. I also give an overview of the system in the intro so those who know they won't like this kind of thing do not need to spend 30 minutes watching it. What I am saying is just because you don't agree with a methodology does not mean you have to "click" dislike. I took the time and effort to put things like this out there for those who are interested. I guess I expect people to just ignore it or don't click "like" if they don't want to use a system like this.
Thanks for sharing, Scotty. I can see how this would make much more fluid combat encounters and will probably give this a try.
I'm not sure I understand the disadvantage against a fleeing enemy rule. Does that mean if an unengaged enemy decides to run (either afraid or going for help) and a character tries to intercept, the character has disadvantage on the intercept roll?
p.s. I've played a lot of miniature wargames and have never played D&D on a grid! After seeing this, I may never use a measuring stick again. Always hated the nit-picking over fractions of an inch and the idea that you decide to charge, but end up just standing there because you're half an inch short.
Someone dislikes my cat crafting video... it's a cat chewing cardboard! I mean really Anyway the new algorythm on YouTube means dislikes do not weigh as much as they used to, but rather add to your overall engagement matrix
I like the prospect of easy combat rules without grid/measurement, but I'd have to adapt it to Pathfinder/3.5 merely because I dislike 4e personally. I understand that you, DM Scotty, are a 4e player, so when I see your vids I take it wiyh a grain of salt that you use a system thats not my preference, but I still certainly enjoy the ideas, even if I havr to tinker them a little to make them work for me (which I woulf do even if it was presented as Pathfinder. I like to tinker...)
For this mechanic's purpose, I switchrd to The DMG's modular tiles mostly because with the uniformity and psuedo grid its A) easier for grid junkies to make the shift (my dungeon floor painting is anything but uniform grid. I actually chastised myself for making my stonework floor too chaotic and unaligned, then chastised myself again, telling myself it added character and would knock it in the teeth of those "Griddies" tp have to play on a dungeon tile that had no semblance of workable grid...)
And B) the psuedo grid makes eyeballing a distance easier, so I don't have to use a stick to measure.
But the shift To TheDMG's tiles doesn't say that your your methods have less favor for me. I still heavily draw upon your vids for inspiration to create unique tiles, and since we are *all* using your 2.5 tile idea, that means alot.
Now, I do have one major Q about you're measureless rules, bevause your discussion about interceptions and advantage/disadvantage gives me the impression you do it differently, but how does Initiative factor into these rules?
I'm not sure if its for me or my group but I like and respect the innovation. This made me think and consider changes and that is cool. I like that it speeds things up and simplifies things. Anyone who comes up with something this unique and this far outside of the box of regular movement rules, is going to draw some negative fire. Kudos from me.
I'm starting a new campaign next month with partly new players (Rise of the Runelords, but with house rules instead of Pathfinder rules) and was planning to use 13 Age movement. I will go with your variant instead, thanks for sharing! Do your players/monsters have the possibility to go outside "one movement" range if the terrain allows it? For instance longbow archers might consider standing back at long range requiring two movements to be reached.
honestly, I disliked the method and won't use measureless in my games, but I still clicked the like button, only because Scotty's video and explanations were good. Disliking the video would have meant that I didn't like the whole thing.
Well, I might not be a D&D player or dungeonmaster, but I believe I can incorporate this system into my ZODIAC Final Fantasy RPG campaign using Map Combat rules. It'll take some tweaking and twisting, but I'm pretty sure I can make it happen. It'll be neat if you can use certain spells while an enemy is moving towards you, maybe like a barrier of force that stops thier movement that round.
Also, your Dungeon Tile craft tips are awesome. Creating my own for a module I'm designing for my system. Thanks and Thanks again
erho: I will once again rise above Lurker status if I ever get back to painting, Real life work transitions... Adulting
Jan 31, 2020 16:23:29 GMT
factoriatabletop: sgtslag...oh man! you are right about it...
Mar 3, 2020 10:13:15 GMT
Draklith: Hey everyone just a quick stop by to see if anyone is still here, hope everyone is doing ok
May 26, 2020 18:27:20 GMT
sgtslag: This forum seems to be slowing down. I hope everyone is still crafting, safely! I will be here until they turn off the power... Cheers!
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factoriatabletop: maybe we should try to make a contest here, between us
Jun 2, 2020 8:40:08 GMT
factoriatabletop: no prizes, just proud....dont know, anyone else?
Jun 2, 2020 8:40:40 GMT
sgtslag: Still unpacking after moving in October... Too much stuff, crafting materials are mostly still in boxes. Weekends are busy with life, so little progress made. Getting the urge to push through, though, soon. I have several projects waiting...
Jun 2, 2020 20:14:39 GMT
erho: Yeah I'm down for a painting contect
Jun 8, 2020 14:28:59 GMT
sgtslag: Started working on making hills, which match my Tee-Time carpet I use for my "grass mat," on my gaming table, for big battles. Got two long chunks of open-cell foam, from a friend. Used my Proxxon Hot Wire Cutter to make terrain hills out of them.
Jul 26, 2020 20:12:40 GMT
sgtslag: Came up with around 80 hills. Covering them with the same carpet, from scraps. They will match the tabletop, perfectly. Contact Cement, is my friend. Will post on it, when I get the pictures uploaded. Some prototypes done, as proof-of-concept...
Jul 26, 2020 20:14:06 GMT
randywest: does anyone know more manufacturers for 1/72 fantasy minis besides Dark Alliance, Caesar and Elhiem?
Sept 14, 2020 14:16:19 GMT
sgtslag: 50 Hills completed, 24 left to cover the sides on. Hoping to finish this project within the week. Then I'll post a build description. For war gaming, but it can cross over to RPG sessions... They match the ground 'cloth', perfectly.
Sept 19, 2020 19:03:09 GMT
sgtslag: Sorry, randywest, the listed makers are the only ones I know.
Sept 19, 2020 19:03:34 GMT
sgtslag: Ran out of Hot Glue, with only five hills left to add a skirt to the sides of. Wal-Mart closes at 8:00 PM, thanks to COVID. GRRRrrr! Another 30 minutes of work, and I would have been done: ~77 hills, modular, perfectly matching my table's ground cloth!
Sept 23, 2020 2:50:39 GMT
sgtslag: Will post a write-up soon, or after next week's vacation. Cheers!
Sept 23, 2020 2:51:57 GMT
sgtslag: Hoping to acquire a Chop Saw within the next two weeks. Then I will cut up MDF into triangles, to form the skeleton of my d20 fantasy world globe... Posting will follow, with how-to guide. Cheers!
May 11, 2021 22:57:40 GMT
erho: I have a confession: I havnt painted a thing in months because I got a new guitar(#8!) but now that May "Megadeth month" is over I have a repaired airbrush and a early 90's Ral Partha Amethyst dragon on the table... pics to come soon!
Jun 11, 2021 17:49:58 GMT
margaret: too bad you can't post your music here =). Hadn't seen that dragon - looks like it came out when all my cash was going to raising kids. Looking forward to seeing your paint choices!
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