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Post by Meph on Jan 23, 2016 22:13:41 GMT
I have been wanting to get into miniature painting for a few years now. I have done very little of it and right now I only own cheap craft paints and cheap brushes. The only actual attempts to paint minis has been this green dragon which I repositioned and repainted, and a couple of reaper bones I did for my Ranger in a campaign I was playing in. While they aren't bad, the craft paint really sucks. Coverage is crap and it can be a hassle to work with. I will always use cheap craft paints for my foam/carboard crafted items but I would like to get into better paints for painting minis. I currently want to paint up a couple of Frostgrave warbands and random encounters (probably about 30 minis) and I am considering picking up one of the Bones Kickstarter kits off Ebay. I love collecting minis and have 500+ pre painted but I would really love to start painting my own. Any buying advice is welcome including brushes and bases. I am thinking about buying the Reaper Master Series Paint Set 1. It's the first 108 paints. It's $329.99 direct from Reaper but can be picked up for $199 on ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Reaper-Master-Series-Paint-Set-09951-9001-9111-108-Basic-Core-Colors-Sealed-/111876896070?hash=item1a0c61f546:g:khEAAOSw4bVToFNeSo thoughts and recommendations?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2016 22:43:43 GMT
I use a mix of specialty pots and cheap craft paints. I bought one set of army painter brushes and they have lasted over a year and with a little work still have a nice point. I buy citadel pots for things like steels, flesh, and technical (cracked earth or blood) cause those just seem to "work better" than other cheaper methods I have personally tried. Just use milky thin coats for even and smooth transitions in colors when using "cheap" craft paints.
Edit: I just checked but I own less than 20 paint pots and the rest are Americana, Craftsmart, and Folkart.
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Post by lordmorbius on Jan 24, 2016 0:19:03 GMT
I have been wanting to get into miniature painting for a few years now. I have done very little of it and right now I only own cheap craft paints and cheap brushes. The only actual attempts to paint minis has been this green dragon which I repositioned and repainted, and a couple of reaper bones I did for my Ranger in a campaign I was playing in. While they aren't bad, the craft paint really sucks. Coverage is crap and it can be a hassle to work with. I will always use cheap craft paints for my foam/carboard crafted items but I would like to get into better paints for painting minis. Any buying advice is welcome including brushes and bases. I am thinking about buying the Reaper Master Series Paint Set 1. It's the first 108 paints. It's $329.99 direct from Reaper but can be picked up for $199 on ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Reaper-Master-Series-Paint-Set-09951-9001-9111-108-Basic-Core-Colors-Sealed-/111876896070?hash=item1a0c61f546:g:khEAAOSw4bVToFNeSo thoughts and recommendations? I don't know what your financial situation is, $199.00 may be insignificant to your budget, but for a disabled goober living on a very small income such as myself, I've found it to far more affordable to just buy individual paints by the bottle. The big paint sets tend to have many colors that are very similar and, in my experience, quite a few colors that I'd rarely, if ever, actually use. Buying individual colors (The basic colors, white, black, blue, red and yellow...along with some specialty colors that I will actually use, such as honed steel, gold, silver, leather brown, khaki, stone gray and copper...at a cost of two or three dollars a bottle was much more affordable than buying the big paint sets. Later on I also bought some lighter and darker shades of some of my colors for highlighting and shadowing. I also found that with reaper paints, you don't need to buy washes either. Just use the darker shade of paint and mix it with water at a ratio of 1 drop of paint for every 3 or 4 drops of water (mixed to your personal preference). It flows very well with the extra water, gets into all the nooks and crannies, where the paint settles and makes excellent shadows once the water evaporates. I buy my individual bottles of paint off ebay from this seller. stores.ebay.com/Hoard-O-Bits/_i.html?_nkw=reaper+paints&submit=Search&_sid=328531845They combine shipping costs when you order more than one item and sell a good assortment of minis and mini bits as well. Definitely worth a look.
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Post by SpielMeisterKev! on Jan 24, 2016 0:41:27 GMT
Howdy,
I would start with the primary colors, a range of browns, and black and white. You can mix any color you need, drops at a time. I would hate to spend $200 on paint, then have them ruined somehow. Letting them settle too long, store too hot or too cold. Metalics yeah go for the good stuff.
Kev!
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Post by runningwolf on Jan 24, 2016 2:44:50 GMT
Using the cheap craft paints and the acrylics in tubes.... The expensive paint is basically BS. Either way you want to use a few thin coats not one or two heavy ones. Brushes are the same way. The cheap ones suck and the uber expensive ones are just hyped up status symbols. You can pick up a decent natural bristle set of 5-10 brushes for $10-$20 as as long as you take decent care of them they will treat you right. There's two types of painting as well. Display and gaming. If you're just painting for game use the minis don't have to be machine perfect. No one is holding them up to their faces, they are usually only as close as arm's length. Two hints from me. One is that a jeweler's visor is super handy. At least for my old eyes it's good to be able to see some detail. Another is after doing a wash put a few coats of gloss sealer on the mini, followed by a few matte coats. Instead of only knowing the sealer has worn off by the paint being rubbed off you see the glass and know to spray with the matte again (instead of having to strip and start all over again).
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Post by adamantinedragon on Jan 24, 2016 4:47:26 GMT
I've used a lot of paints, both for brush painting and airbrushing. My personal experience for the painting I've done is that you need to use the highest quality airbrush paints you can afford, or else you'll be cleaning your clogged airbrush a lot. But for brushing, you really only need the expensive paints for highly detailed work, where the smaller pigment grain makes a difference.
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sotf
Advice Guru
Posts: 1,084
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Post by sotf on Jan 24, 2016 6:17:01 GMT
The really big things for starting out are more basic.
First thing you do is wash your minis. Especially with Reaper Bones, you have mould release issues.
Take a bucket, put your minis in, put a few pumps of soap into it, then fill it from the tap. Use the water to keep the minis moving in it as it fills and you have some suds. I tend to then let it soak in the soapy water overnight. Then drain the bucket and wash off the minis with clean water. You can either dry it off, or set the pieces on a towel to air dry depending upon what you want to do with it.
Secondly, other than Bones, you really need to prime your minis to get the best results. Both in giving an even coloration to work from (You can even pre-shade with sprays if you want to), and it helps the rest of the paint grip better.
For paints themselves, quite honestly a good mix of stuff is your best bet. I've got craft paints, various art store ones, washes, inks, and gaming paints. The one thing that you want to focus on is that they should all be acrylic paints because it works largely the same and requires fewer special things for certain paints. One thing that is worth getting for all of them is acrylic medium. It lets you do things with the various paints that can create problems otherwise.
Also, one of the best things I ended up with was the $5 I spent at walmart for some of the plastic, washable "tub" pallets. The raised edges is very useful to keep the paint from getting everywhere and the plastic can get banged up so that if you do knock it, you don't end up with glass or ceramic shards to deal with along with the paint...
Another good thing to have is a small squeeze bottle for adding water to thin your paints. Something that gives you control on how you add it.
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Post by jennifer on Jan 24, 2016 7:06:38 GMT
Here's what I got to start out and it is working well so far: From ReaperMini.Com : 1) Learn to Paint Bones Kit $39.99 (gives you all the basic colors you need to start: black, white, dirty bone, brown, lighter brown, dark metallic silver, lighter metallic silver, etc..). 2) MSP Brush on White Primer $3 (don't use on Bones--I use for other plastic or metal) 3) MSP Black Primer (Brush on as well) $3 (don't use on Bones--I use for other plastic or metal) Amazon.Com: Best brushes in the world a lot of people claim (I'm really liking them.. never painted so easily before -- very accurate): 1) Winsor & Newton Series 7 Kolinsky Size 0 brush $15 2) Winsor & Newton Series 7 Kolinsky Size 000 (3/0) brush -- for fine detail $15 Hobby Lobby: 1) Pink Soap brush cleaner only a few bucks with coupon Make sure to keep rinsing brush in water every minute or so and after the session is done give it a good rinse, then pink soap the brushes, then rinse again well. Don't leave brush sitting in glass/container. Don't ever stir paint with brush or mash it on any occasion. Don't dip brush in too far into the pool so that paint gets into the ferule. (This is all stuff you probably already know.) Of course, I'm just a newbie though Oh, by the way I have been using cheap $1 (with coupon if need be) Americana craft store paints on my minis as well if I don't have the reaper color I need. (But haven't used any craft store paints on my reaper minis yet -- just the cheap toy store minitures.) And I also do a lot of mixing of colors I already have to make new colors rather than buying dozens of $3+ paints.
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Post by runningwolf on Jan 24, 2016 13:52:41 GMT
You can go through and find pictures of people who painted minis with 50 cent craft paint and people who painted with the $5 tiny paints. Know what the results are? The same. The same goes for using a $20 sable and a $1 natural fiber brush. Cost does not always equate to quality (have always seen the "expensive paint people" a bit like the people saying organic is better chemistry is chemistry).
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Post by jennifer on Jan 24, 2016 15:41:47 GMT
Well I don't know for sure about reaper paints vs craft store paints (except that they might have a bit less grit?) but maybe that doesn't matter?.. but I do know I love my brushes compared to the other brushes I was using anyway -- so much easier.
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Post by Erasmas on Jan 24, 2016 17:17:00 GMT
This question is only likely to generate opinions, since art is always a subjective medium (both in its execution as well as in its appreciation). I am certain that many painters balked at the idea of using house paint and turkey baisters to work on canvas, but Pollock did just that. So, there is no such thing as "doing it right", only what is "doing it right" for you. Experimentation and experience are the only guaranteed methods of getting better... period. What follows is simply what I have learned to be work best for how I paint miniatures, nothing more. If you find it helpful, then I am very glad. By no means am I an expert, I have just been painting a long time. But again, trying things for yourself is a far better teacher than I will ever be. A lot of what jennifer said about brush care is invaluable advice. Take good care of your gear and it will not only turn out better and more consistent work, but it will last you much longer. And if a brush does get ruined, save it. You can use it for drybrushing or effects like stippling, etc. For stirring your paints, you can use toothpicks and whatnot, but I use the backside of the brush I have in-hand and then just rinse it in my paint water and wipe it off on the papertowel I'm working with. As for paints goes... I got a bunch of Citadel paints when I first started. They definitely work well, but are expensive to get a lot of them. And they dried out incredibly fast, for my tastes, especially for what I paint for them. So, personally, I do not feel like I got my money's worth out of them. So now, I use the cheap craft paints - I can get results I am happy with from them by adding a very small amount of clean water from a syringe I keep with my brushes. Some of the viscosities differ from color to color, so some do not need water and others need more than I usually use. The key is to learn what consistency works for you, with what technique you are doing. I will say that being able to get three different colors of paint, where the bottles are at least twice as big, for the price of one of the expensive brands is a better option for me. Regardless of which you pick in the end, teach yourself the color wheel and try to get a feel for mixing colors to get what you are after. A piece of advice that will make your life much easier is to write down any color recipe that you create and are likely to use again! Do this as a "Zombie Flesh: 2 parts Grass Green (Apple Barrel), 1 part Bleached Bone (Citadel), 1 part Country Gray (Folk Art)" type format. This way, you will always be able to color match. Lastly, practice. If you are going to try out a new technique, grab a trash piece that has similar qualitites to what you're working on (i.e. flat versus textured, absorbent versus nonporous, etc.). Be it cardboard or an old toy or plastic with raised ridges on it. Prime it just like your project piece and try out the technique on that first. Most of all... don't stress out or beat yourself up over mistakes. Have fun with it, play around with ideas, and discover how YOU love to paint.
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Post by lordmorbius on Jan 24, 2016 21:44:50 GMT
(have always seen the "expensive paint people" a bit like the people saying organic is better chemistry is chemistry). I've never really understood that either. In high school chemistry class, I learned that the definition of Organic is "Contains Carbon", Inorganic means "Does Not Contain Carbon". All grocery produce contains carbon, the basic building block of life on this planet, however some marketing goober somewhere decided to make it an advertising slogan for high price foodstuffs???
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Post by lordmorbius on Jan 24, 2016 22:00:48 GMT
This question is only likely to generate opinions, since art is always a subjective medium (both in its execution as well as in its appreciation). I am certain that many painters balked at the idea of using house paint and turkey baisters to work on canvas, but Pollock did just that. So, there is no such thing as "doing it right", only what is "doing it right" for you. Experimentation and experience are the only guaranteed methods of getting better... period. What follows is simply what I have learned to be work best for how I paint miniatures, nothing more. If you find it helpful, then I am very glad. By no means am I an expert, I have just been painting a long time. But again, trying things for yourself is a far better teacher than I will ever be. A lot of what jennifer said about brush care is invaluable advice. Take good care of your gear and it will not only turn out better and more consistent work, but it will last you much longer. And if a brush does get ruined, save it. You can use it for drybrushing or effects like stippling, etc. For stirring your paints, you can use toothpicks and whatnot, but I use the backside of the brush I have in-hand and then just rinse it in my paint water and wipe it off on the papertowel I'm working with. As for paints goes... I got a bunch of Citadel paints when I first started. They definitely work well, but are expensive to get a lot of them. And they dried out incredibly fast, for my tastes, especially for what I paint for them. So, personally, I do not feel like I got my money's worth out of them. So now, I use the cheap craft paints - I can get results I am happy with from them by adding a very small amount of clean water from a syringe I keep with my brushes. Some of the viscosities differ from color to color, so some do not need water and others need more than I usually use. The key is to learn what consistency works for you, with what technique you are doing. I will say that being able to get three different colors of paint, where the bottles are at least twice as big, for the price of one of the expensive brands is a better option for me. Regardless of which you pick in the end, teach yourself the color wheel and try to get a feel for mixing colors to get what you are after. A piece of advice that will make your life much easier is to write down any color recipe that you create and are likely to use again! Do this as a "Zombie Flesh: 2 parts Grass Green (Apple Barrel), 1 part Bleached Bone (Citadel), 1 part Country Gray (Folk Art)" type format. This way, you will always be able to color match. Lastly, practice. If you are going to try out a new technique, grab a trash piece that has similar qualitites to what you're working on (i.e. flat versus textured, absorbent versus nonporous, etc.). Be it cardboard or an old toy or plastic with raised ridges on it. Prime it just like your project piece and try out the technique on that first. Most of all... don't stress out or beat yourself up over mistakes. Have fun with it, play around with ideas, and discover how YOU love to paint. Very well put Erasmas, so well put that I gave you a karma hit for the breakdown and detail of that post. Some 25 to 30 years ago, I started out with Citadel paints myself (Actually, over 40 years ago I started out with Testor's enamel paints on model race cars and military models, but I'm not really counting that as I didn't start painting gaming lead minis until the 1980s...Holy crap, remembering all this is making me feel old now). Anyway, Citadel paints were the more expensive paints back then as well, when I was gainfully employed and making cash hand over fist, didn't really care about the cost, just went with whatever White Dwarf Magazine said was the best. Citadel paints actually were really good paints, but over the years, a great many other brands of paints were just as good (in my opinion) and were more affordable. I honestly can't tell any difference in quality between Citadel and Reaper brand paints, and the Reaper stuff is about half the price. Craft paints seemed to be hit or miss with me. Some colors turned out good, but others seemed to have issues (such as the gray paint I used on stone gargoyles, it seemed to want to crust up and flake off very easily...I dunno, maybe it had something to do with chemistry, or maybe I just didn't mix it up well enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 1:03:42 GMT
The craft paints don't have the finely ground and concentrated pigment of the miniature paints, so, while someone with a lot of practice can use the craft paints to get a similar result, it will be a pain in the ass.. the miniature paints go on easy and cover very well, they work as a system and are designed for exactly what they do. I invested in the Army Painter paints set, the three army painter brushes, and yeah, I watched a lot of youtube videos on painting techniques (I even collected them for you at reapercraft.boards.net/ ) Then I just got into it and did it.. got better, and worked on my own style. I still use craft paints for miniature terrain, but not on my miniatures.. simply because I don't trust the craft paints to not flake off or fade over time, and also, they are so much harder to work in detail with. But yeah, its a personal option. I just want my hobby to be relaxed and enjoyable, with good results for my efforts and time.
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Post by adamantinedragon on Jan 25, 2016 1:15:10 GMT
Talent is talent and tools are tools. The best results are generally when the most talented people use the best tools. But highly talented people using poor tools generally produce much superior results to less talented people using superior tools. That's the whole thing that "talent" is, really.
But, that doesn't mean that quality of tools and supplies doesn't matter. They do. But talent matters more.
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Post by Meph on Jan 25, 2016 1:23:04 GMT
Thanks AJ, I am definitely going to check it out. I know this site is all about making our own crafts and as such, most people are all about doing things as cheaply as possible. I know people want to say there is no difference but like I said in my first post, it was apparant in the first minis I did that all paints were NOT created equal. I have about 5 different brands of craft paint and some of them aren't worth a crap. My biggest beef was that when I painted the reaper minis, the tiny details were lost with craft paints. I know they can be thinned but they cover so poorly as they are that thinned, some of them would take 10 coats and then it would still be burying details.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 2:21:57 GMT
Talent is talent and tools are tools. The best results are generally when the most talented people use the best tools. But highly talented people using poor tools generally produce much superior results to less talented people using superior tools. That's the whole thing that "talent" is, really. But, that doesn't mean that quality of tools and supplies doesn't matter. They do. But talent matters more. While some could be said to be more inclined to do a thing, talent, in my experience, is just a matter of repetition. If you enjoy a thing that requires some skill to do, then you had better hope you are either getting paid to do it, or you love doing it, because unless you do it a lot, you are not going to amaze anyone. When I first picked up some play dough as a child, I was exactly like anyone else.. the only difference was, I never really stopped playing.
I honestly believe anyone can do what I do, if they are willing to put in the time and effort.
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Post by adamantinedragon on Jan 25, 2016 3:28:40 GMT
@aj , I hear and understand you. I do a lot of stuff myself, and most of what I do, I do pretty well, if I just stick to it. So I totally get what you mean about repetition, and that other people can do what you (or I) do if they just have a little stick to it in their makeup.
But I will say that I have met people with raw talent, and their efforts with less training and inferior tools and materials has blown me away. I see it here on these boards from time to time. Some people seem to be blessed with the ability to just do amazing things in some field.
I personally think there is a difference between art and crafting. While both appear to be the same thing to many people, my own experience is that crafting is all about learning the skills of doing things. While art is some sort of inexplicable ability to turn out something jaw-dropping, even without fully mastering the skills. When a true artist is also a true craftsman, that is the pinnacle of art. But even a talent-less hack like me can learn how to do basic stuff and produce a serviceable result.
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Post by runningwolf on Jan 25, 2016 3:34:11 GMT
(have always seen the "expensive paint people" a bit like the people saying organic is better chemistry is chemistry). I've never really understood that either. In high school chemistry class, I learned that the definition of Organic is "Contains Carbon", Inorganic means "Does Not Contain Carbon". All grocery produce contains carbon, the basic building block of life on this planet, however some marketing goober somewhere decided to make it an advertising slogan for high price foodstuffs??? *gives you a man hug* you are correct sir. We have a few chemical plants in our area, lady at work asked me what "inorganic chemistry" was. At least with the paint analogy it's the same type of marketing ply which has nothing to do with the chemistry. I'm actually going to do a tiny experiment soon. The Apple Barrel paint I used on some HeroClix worked good. I bought some artist tube acrylics. I'll be using those on my next batch of minis. They were still cheaper than the specialist mini paints. I have watched a ton of mini painting video. There are some people claiming you need all the expensive paints and brushes. there are some other people out there who use good old crafting paint, OK quality brushes (I think the set I got was about $1 each), and talent. To tell the truth you can't tell the difference. With a good varnish/sealer the wear and tear is left more to your clear coat than paint.
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Post by runningwolf on Jan 25, 2016 3:42:21 GMT
A good laymen's explanation of the acrylic paint.
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