DM Michael
Paint Manipulator
Preparing for 'In the spider's web' part of LMOP
Posts: 169
|
Post by DM Michael on Nov 11, 2014 18:05:45 GMT
Hello crafters,
I am in need of help regarding crafting a theatre. I am clueless to what I should do. Has anyone ever done this? I am completely open to any suggestions. Normally I only do 3D stuff, but on a few occasions I have done 2D stuff as well. This time however, I have no idea what to do. My two main concerns are crafting the seats and how to handle “Fog of War”. Due to various Christmas arrangements I have 4 weeks to come up with something, so time is currently not an issue.
The Background The characters are currently in Athenos. Athenos is a poor port town with 15000 inhabitants, mainly humans but also a large number of Halflings. There is a high price on the heads of the characters. An evil mage guild wants them dead, mainly so that they can steal two important items that they carry. One of the characters is a member of a thief’s guild and the party has received some help from his guild. In order to strike back at the mage guild, they need to enter their guild house. To do this, they need perfect disguises.
The theatre in town is owned by a collector who has connections to the mage guild. The jewel in his collection is “The mask of Mischiefs”, which is kept on display in the first class lounge of the theatre. The owner will on rare occasions entertain VIPs in the lounge by using this mask to impersonate them with extreme precision.
Now the characters want to break in and steal it.
The setting Some time ago I got a hold of “Council of Thieves: The Sixfold Trial” – a pathfinder adventure. After having read parts of it I came to the conclusion that this adventure would not sit well with my gaming group. However, in this adventure there is a description of “The Night Shade Theatre”. So I decided to use this as a basis and then expand on it, so that it wasn’t a complete waste of money.
The players have been told that the theatre is an upper class place that specializes in brutal and bloody horror plays. It uses large amounts of magical effects to enhance the plays. The Mask of Mischiefs would be very valuable asset to any thief who could steal it. Several have tried, but they all disappeared. Some has speculated that some of the murders/sacrifices that take place on the stage might be more real than the audience suspects they might even be the missing thieves. The Theatre used to be and old temple, rumour has it that a dungeon beneath the theatre is crawling with undeads who are not happy about the new purpose of the building.
The theatre hall itself has been almost completely dressed in thick red velvet. Here and there the naked stone walls of the temple are visible behind the cloth. Horrific stone statues of long forgotten deities decorate the hallways. Some statues are missing others have been maimed.
The main hall is illuminated by a gnomish contraption using magical light. It can be set to illuminate the aisles only or the entire hall.
The map in the adventure book show only the theatre hall itself, but I have added a foyer, a lounge, a bar, a ticket office, dressing rooms, storage room for props and costumes etc. There is a ground level, an upper level, and some dungeon levels.
The dungeons levels below ground level is no problem, I will just use my regular dungeon tiles for that. It is the theatre part that troubles me.
|
|
|
Post by curufin on Nov 11, 2014 18:54:33 GMT
This Thread might help at least a little with the stage...
|
|
|
Post by thedmg on Nov 12, 2014 4:57:21 GMT
I think most theatres of a similar "historical time period" (yes I know this is fantasy) in history would not have seats, but rather standing room in front of the stage and then raised bleachers at the back and sides (if at all). Most medieval plays were generally travelling troupes I think which put on a play in the town square. They may have had a rudimentary stage. This may help: Medieval Theatre
|
|
sadric
Paint Manipulator
crafting not enough, not enough time. :-(
Posts: 199
|
Post by sadric on Nov 12, 2014 8:29:41 GMT
I guess you think about a fairly modern theatre, with seats, balcons and the red carpet. Its historical nonsens but, you know, dragons and fairy are nonsens, too.
You need a large room with seating places. Maybe you could be minimalistic and use simple wooden strips, in a L-shape glued together and painted red as rows of seats. But seat rows are so cramped that-if you place it correct-no miniature will have room to move. So maybe you should simply paint the seat rows on the floor and declare that there is only 1/2 movement possible.
Then you need the stage, of course. Wooden boards on a higher area. And I guess some second story with some balconys would be cool, only question is if it is payable to have two storys. If you build somehow the side walls as real 3d walls you could made sice balconys.
Of course, the main question will be if its really needed. It should be fairly large. If there isnt a combat maybe you didnt really need a large ground tile painted red. Maybe the combat is only on the stage, or only at some choke point like near the doors. Maybe its better to conentrate only at this area's. Maybe there isnt action on the stage and you could went with a small strip of stage, blocked by the curtain.
BTW: Like the description of the old (evil) temnple behind the curtain. If you made 3d-Walls you should try to hide some demonic faces behind red curtains. Maybe carved from fomboard.
|
|
|
Post by Erasmas on Nov 12, 2014 14:36:21 GMT
Another possible option for seating might be what they use at the Renaissance Festival (at least here in Texas)... concrete/wooden benches put into rows. They are like pews, only without a back on them. This would allow you to still place miniatures amongst them, albeit it would have to be on top of them.
|
|
|
Post by DnDPaladin on Nov 12, 2014 19:35:12 GMT
overall, what you need is a picture to help you get started. i suggest you go to google and type in theaters in the image section and find yourself an image that you can try to mimick a bit.
for my part i created the basics in a town square. 4 inch long benches placed every 2 inches with a stage up in front. really did the job for a fantasy setting. but for more modern stuff, you'd need to know exactly what you want and the best way to do that is to mimic a picture and then modify it to your needs.
|
|
DM Michael
Paint Manipulator
Preparing for 'In the spider's web' part of LMOP
Posts: 169
|
Post by DM Michael on Nov 12, 2014 21:47:01 GMT
This Thread might help at least a little with the stage... Thanks. I had forgotten about that one.
|
|
DM Michael
Paint Manipulator
Preparing for 'In the spider's web' part of LMOP
Posts: 169
|
Post by DM Michael on Nov 12, 2014 22:38:37 GMT
I think most theatres ... would not have seats,... Most medieval plays were generally travelling troupes .... I agree. However, this is not your ordinary theatre, but I high class establishment. They would not admit peasants or other simpletons, even if they could afford the ticket prices. The patrons of the arts must have the best of the best, or at least a place to sit. Then again a poor city of this size probably couldn't provide enough revenue to run such an establishment. Anyway, I put it on the map, it is there now, and the players are about to break in. When I thought of this setting, I did have your standard modern day theatre in mind. Looking at the map of "the night shade theatre" in the adventure booklet, there are seats. I am not too familiar with the Pathfinder campaign setting, but I do get a feeling that it is more of a late medieval time period setting, than the Mystara campaign setting from D&D. On the other hand the building used to be a temple of some sorts... I'll do some experiments with benches and pews and see how it turns out. I already have a few loose ideas involving cereal boxes, kitchen paper, kebab skewers, matches, paperclips and plastic sprues.
|
|
DM Michael
Paint Manipulator
Preparing for 'In the spider's web' part of LMOP
Posts: 169
|
Post by DM Michael on Nov 12, 2014 23:15:10 GMT
I guess you think about a fairly modern theatre, with seats, balcons and the red carpet. Its historical nonsens but, you know, dragons and fairy are nonsens, too. You need a large room with seating places. Maybe you could be minimalistic and use simple wooden strips, in a L-shape glued together and painted red as rows of seats. But seat rows are so cramped that-if you place it correct-no miniature will have room to move. So maybe you should simply paint the seat rows on the floor and declare that there is only 1/2 movement possible. Then you need the stage, of course. Wooden boards on a higher area. And I guess some second story with some balconys would be cool, only question is if it is payable to have two storys. If you build somehow the side walls as real 3d walls you could made sice balconys. Of course, the main question will be if its really needed. It should be fairly large. If there isnt a combat maybe you didnt really need a large ground tile painted red. Maybe the combat is only on the stage, or only at some choke point like near the doors. Maybe its better to conentrate only at this area's. Maybe there isnt action on the stage and you could went with a small strip of stage, blocked by the curtain. BTW: Like the description of the old (evil) temnple behind the curtain. If you made 3d-Walls you should try to hide some demonic faces behind red curtains. Maybe carved from fomboard. ..with seats, balcons and the red carpet.. That is exactly what I had in mind.
..use simple wooden strips, in a L-shape glued together.. I would probably make it a little more elaborate than that
..But seat rows are so cramped that-if you place it correct-no miniature will have room to move. So maybe you should simply paint the seat rows on the floor and declare that there is only 1/2 movement possible. .. Good points, I haven't thought of that. ..if it is playable to have two storys .. When I make 3D stuff, I don't make it higher than 5cm. If I make it higher, it obscures the lines of view. Players (and DM) will have to stand up to see what is going on. So If I were to make it 3D, I would make the first and second floor separate of each other. I might present them to the players on top of each other and then separate them when the playing starts.
Maybe the combat is only on the stage,... I don't know where the fight will be. But I have constructed the layout so that the players will have to go through most of the theatre, (and back). At some point one of the players will see undiscernible movement in the shadows, they might also here noises, and later on one will make the following observation "wasn't there a statue that pedestal when we passed it the first time?" This adventure is not about the fight, it is about the scary atmosphere leading up to the fight.
..If you made 3d-Walls you should try to hide some demonic faces behind red curtains. Maybe carved from fomboard... I have the Games workshop "ancient ruins". There are a nice bunch of excess skulls, demonic faces, horns and stuff in that box. I might just use them here. Thanks for reminding me.
|
|
DM Michael
Paint Manipulator
Preparing for 'In the spider's web' part of LMOP
Posts: 169
|
Post by DM Michael on Nov 12, 2014 23:22:30 GMT
overall, what you need is a picture to help you get started. i suggest you go to google and type in theaters in the image section and find yourself an image that you can try to mimick a bit. for my part i created the basics in a town square. 4 inch long benches placed every 2 inches with a stage up in front. really did the job for a fantasy setting. but for more modern stuff, you'd need to know exactly what you want and the best way to do that is to mimic a picture and then modify it to your needs. I do have a picture. But I don't like the idea of a single seat filling a complete 5 foot square. I guess this is one of those playability vs realism vs crafting skills compromises, which I just have to make.
|
|
DM Michael
Paint Manipulator
Preparing for 'In the spider's web' part of LMOP
Posts: 169
|
Post by DM Michael on Nov 12, 2014 23:33:42 GMT
Another possible option for seating might be what they use at the Renaissance Festival (at least here in Texas)... concrete/wooden benches put into rows. They are like pews, only without a back on them. This would allow you to still place miniatures amongst them, albeit it would have to be on top of them. Apart from dragon throne by DMScotty, miniatures really can't use furniture; they have to be placed on top of it.
|
|
|
Post by Erasmas on Nov 12, 2014 23:38:35 GMT
Exactly. I was just saying that by leaving the backs off of the benches, you would have a more stable surface to do just that. You might be able to have them straddle between two backs but that seems like it would leave them prone to... well, going prone (tipping over).
|
|
sotf
Advice Guru
Posts: 1,084
|
Post by sotf on Nov 13, 2014 6:03:28 GMT
Might work to just do the benches as the backs with a strip of cardstock.
Had a theater I'd done a long time ago for a Star Wars game that I no longer have due to water damage.
The basic idea was to start with a hexagon. Then take a line from one corner to two away, that marks the basis for the stage, take that line into a slight curve towards the majority of the hex. Now, on the other sides, use row benches with enough space to walk along the sides of them, and you'll have 4 sets of rows.
Then add a second floor with balcony "box" seating around the same 4 sides, but their fronts link up to the hexagon and extend away from it. Part those you would have a hallway giving access (a wider hallway would be beneath the hall and the box seats on the 1st floor), stairs giving access on the outer ones and your lounge for the wealthy could be accessible from the center there. Under it would work for concessions and sales.
Behind the stage with access to the lower hallways on each side would be the backstage area with props, costuming, and similar arranged how you want.
Actually, if you play World of Warcraft, for the actual stage and seating, take a quick jump to Karazhan, there might be a map on that wiki) that gives a decent layout for the theater itself. Though the rest might need some work
|
|
|
Post by DnDPaladin on Nov 13, 2014 6:18:21 GMT
i'm not saying to take the whole inch for them. actually i'd easily see 2 seats per inches. after all a seat takes about 2 and a half feet wide. that said you have to also think about how the game plays, like they had said. with this kind of setup. the players will definitely not be able to step between the seatings.
also, the reason why charcaters works on inches, is their base. without their base they'd easily fit into half an inch.
|
|
sadric
Paint Manipulator
crafting not enough, not enough time. :-(
Posts: 199
|
Post by sadric on Nov 13, 2014 7:50:43 GMT
also, the reason why charcaters works on inches, is their base. without their base they'd easily fit into half an inch. My miniatures are not happy if I cut all the bases so they could visit the theatre. "All your bases are belong to us!" ;-)
|
|
DM Michael
Paint Manipulator
Preparing for 'In the spider's web' part of LMOP
Posts: 169
|
Post by DM Michael on Nov 13, 2014 9:23:17 GMT
also, the reason why charcaters works on inches, is their base. without their base they'd easily fit into half an inch. My miniatures are not happy if I cut all the bases so they could visit the theatre. "All your bases are belong to us!" ;-) Who knows. Maybe "Somebody set up us the bomb" because there is definately going to be traps. Maybe one of the monsters will groul "You have no chance to survive make your time." The paladin left the group, but someone else might yell "For great justice." :-) My day time job is computer engineering.
|
|
|
Post by DnDPaladin on Nov 14, 2014 2:33:32 GMT
you gotta admit, it would be so awesome having character not able to ever stand on their own. 8)
|
|
DM Michael
Paint Manipulator
Preparing for 'In the spider's web' part of LMOP
Posts: 169
|
Post by DM Michael on Jan 28, 2015 22:21:59 GMT
Just wanted to share what I ended up with: I had all the pieces already except for the theatre hall it self (the blueish parts) and the statues. There are 96 seats in all. It took me about 2 hours to make them. I didn't include seating arrangements for the Waldorf and Statler room. All the statues took about 2 hours to cut out and glue together. I bought a bag with 60 knights in it at the supermarket. It was about 20cents for each piece. It took me about an hour to cut out the MDF for the floors, and two hours to cut out all the polystyrene, and a little more than an hour to paint them. The whole setup is about 100x90cm. The theatre hall it self is 50x40cm. Second floor: I ran the adventure last Saturday. I didn't go quite the way I expected it to, but then again these things usually don't.
|
|