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Post by bloodchoke on Feb 23, 2014 21:36:18 GMT
Hey guys, hope this is the right section for this. Wasn't sure if it would be better here or in "tips and tricks." Anyway...
I was wondering what you guys use to seal your minis. I've been using a krylon matte finish, which works fine on most minis, but I have one in particular that is still very shiny for some reason. The weather has just gotten so that spray paint is an option again, so maybe I just need to hit him with a few more coats. I've read that other people prefer using a spry gloss varnish first, since it dries into a harder protective shell, then use dull coat to bring the shine down. If anyone here does this, I'd be really interested to hear your results. Does the matte finish really get rid of the gloss, or will they still be shiny?
Also, metal minis are kinda a pain in my ass. I tend to have a more difficult time getting paint on them, and the same wizard with the shiny robes also tends to chip really easily. I noticed a new chip as I was putting the matte finish on yesterday, but I have no idea how it happened. Could this have anything to do with me using a brush on primer rather than a spray?
Thanks in advance for any advice.
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Post by adamantinedragon on Feb 23, 2014 21:58:38 GMT
I've used a bunch of different spray on matte finishes. Right now I am using Mod Podge matte finish, which I like because it dries much faster than the other matte finishers I've tried. It usually dries well before half an hour where some of the other brands I've used are tacky for hours after spraying.
I typically use a spray on primer. I don't do a lot with metal minis so I don't have enough experience to help much, but I'd say it depends on what primer you are using and how well it adheres to the metal. I don't know that spray on vs brush on adherence is fundamentally different.
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Post by sgtslag on Feb 23, 2014 23:07:46 GMT
I've used various matte coatings, but spray on is probably my least favorite. It is fast, but it is also expensive, toxic, and a pain as it has to be done in the garage, in warm weather. In the past, I used Scenic Cement, sprayed on using a hand pump sprayer. It works well enough, but if you apply it too heavily, it will give the figure a milky white coating, particularly in the folds. Mod Podge also makes a clear, matte coating which can be brushed on.
I've read about folks making their own matte clear coat: add talcum powder to Pledge with Future Floor Shine (clear acrylic paint), and it will dull it down. Never tried it, too lazy, but folks say it works -- if you get the right mix. Too much talcum powder, and it becomes white; too little talcum powder, and it won't be dull.
With regards to primers, I've used both brush-on, and spray-on automotive primers. They work, but they both have their issues. Now I use artists' gesso: it is a brush-on canvas primer, for painting with acrylics, water-colors, and even oil paints. It goes on thick, but it dries to a thin, 2nd skin over the surface of the mini's. I usually have to go back and touch up pinholes that form, when it dries. Gesso is available in three main colors: white, gray, and black. There are clear gesso's, but they don't work the same. Gesso is available at artist supply shops, including Michael's, Hobby Lobby, and the like. I've been using it on metal, resin, and plastic miniatures, with great success. Cheers!
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Post by indigo777 on Feb 24, 2014 2:12:32 GMT
H I've read that other people prefer using a spry gloss varnish first, since it dries into a harder protective shell, then use dull coat to bring the shine down. If anyone here does this, I'd be really interested to hear your results. Does the matte finish really get rid of the gloss, or will they still be shiny? Testor's Dull Coat completely removes the shiny effect of the undercoat.It makes the miniature looks like it did without any coat on it at all. Be sure to use it when the weather's right though. I asked a similar question on the old forum and was given the advice to do a coat of Pledge with Future Floor Shine and then spray a coat of Testor's Dull Coat on it after the Pledge dries. Been using that method for a few months now and I highly recommend it. The coats are insanely durable. I just toss my painted minis in a fishing tackle box with all the other factory painted minis now instead of keeping them in their own foam slot. The Pledge is a tough clear coat that will seal in paint and protect it from scratches and the Testors Dull coat removes all the shine from the pledge undercoat. Pledge with future shine is an Acrylic based varnish that binds nicely with acrylic paints, plastics, vinyl, wood, clay, greenstuff/milliput and other materials. There's a nice hidden benefit with this method as well. You get 2 protective layers on your miniature and unlike most paint sealing methods with this one you can tell when the first layer is rubbing off from heavy play because the mini starts to looks shiny. When it does that you can spray it again with the dull coat, the paint never gets exposed to risk being damaged. Its a very cost effective method as well. Pledge with Future shine runs between 6-7 dollars for a 27 once (1 pint 11 onces) bottle that will cover all your painting needs for years. I've used it to seal around 100 minis now (including several large dragons and one of the DM Scotty purple worms) and still have 95% of the bottle left. You can also use the Pledge with future shine to make paint washes as well. There are several tutorials online that tell you how to mix them up. For testors Dull coat I recommend getting it at Hobby Lobby or Michael's craft stores as almost every week they have a printable coupon on their websites to get you 40% off any full price item. The Testors Dull Coat is usually $4.99 and you can get it for a little under 3 dollars with the coupon. I've went through about 1.5 cans of it on a 100 minis so far.
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Post by bloodchoke on Feb 24, 2014 2:47:29 GMT
Really good advice, guys, thank you all!! I think I'll pick up some Pledge and give that a shot, since that also solves storage issues.
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Post by pedrodevaca on Feb 24, 2014 15:09:48 GMT
Testors dull coat is what I used when I used to build models. Cheap spray matt like Krylon (which I also use) will actually increase the gloss of some super flat paints. A high quality spray matte will knock to matt even a gloss varnish. However, those super nice and expensive spray matts are less protective than cheap ones..... The 'mattier' the varnish the less protective it is. Or more accurately, the glossier the varnish the more protective. Gloss varnish forms a cohesive outer skin. The more cohesion it has with itself as it cures the glossier the finish. Matt varnish IS gloss varnish but with some agent in it to fracture the surface. The more fracturing, the 'mattier' the finish, and the less protective the coat is when all is said and done. Hence why some recommend to hit it with gloss then hit it with a high quality matte.
Re:sgtslag's suggestion - Scenic Cement is Woodland Scenics brand name for watered down acrylic Matte Medium (+ flow enhancer). Either scenic cement or matte medium can be used to knock gloss down, but its intended to be blended into acrylic paint for such a purpose. By itself, it will form a rubbery, clear surface when cured but is not as hard or as protective as varnish.
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Post by skunkape on Feb 24, 2014 15:15:44 GMT
I usually coat with a dull coat spray paint myself. By the time I'm ready to clear coat my minis, I am planning on not touching them again till the clear coat is completely dry so I don't worry to much about length of drying time!
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Post by bloodchoke on Feb 25, 2014 4:44:50 GMT
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Post by indigo777 on Feb 25, 2014 12:51:04 GMT
Yeah looks like they just changed the name of it and dropped the Future Shine logo from their products. On Walmart's website it still contains the old Future Shine description but shows the new bottle design: www.walmart.com/ip/Pledge-Floor-Care-27-fl-oz/15136693Keep your floor clean and smooth with Pledge Floor Finish with Future Shine. For a transparent, lasting shine, Pledge Finish, 27 fl oz does the job with ease. Even with heavy traffic and daily wear and tear, Pledge Future Shine stays on, working well with virtually all types of flooring, from vinyl to linoleum, ceramic, stone and tile. Pledge Future Shine has no wax and is enhanced with acrylic protection. Pledge Floor Care:
Safe on vinyl, linoleum, ceramic, tile and stone floors No wax Acrylic protection Long lasting shine The main thing to look for is on the back of the label it will say Acrylic Protection And that its safe for Tile and Vinyl floors.
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zaric
Cardboard Collector
Posts: 35
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Post by zaric on May 17, 2014 0:09:40 GMT
Do you use the pledge straight, or mix with water? Do you brush on, or dip it? I would like to try, but don't want to mess up. The details on the technique are appreciated. thanks!
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Post by indigo777 on May 17, 2014 2:39:47 GMT
I brush it on straight with a small soft brush. That way I can control the result better, like using a dry brush to wick up any excess pooling of the sealer. Its acryllic based so the pledge comes right off the brush as easily as acryllic paint does, just swish the brush in water to clean it and wipe it with a paper towel. I found dipping minis to be messy as hell or impractical for larger pieces but I know a lot of people do dips I just didn't like it personally.
You don't need to add water to the Pledge floor care it already flows like water and is a thin liquid similar to water already.
I bought a pack of the empty paint bottles used for storing mixed paints in to store the pledge in. This makes it easier to paint with and keeps you from contaminating the whole bottle of pledge with dirt or paint flakes. If I see any cloudiness in my paint bottle I just empty it rinse it and refill from the pledge bottle.
Keep in mind this is the protective clear coat layer and not meant to be the top layer usless you are after a glossy or wet look. It dries very glossy so you need to spray it with a dull coat as the final layer. I've been using Testor's Dull Coat, which can be gotten for about $2.75 a can at Hobby Lobby and Michaels using the weekly 40% coupons, and the end result is fantastic.
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Post by sgtslag on May 20, 2014 20:35:10 GMT
Pledge Floor Shine dries in about 5 minutes, or less, so be aware that you don't have much time to remove excess amounts. It is super-easy to work with. It is also the key ingredient in Magic Wash, for custom color washes: add some acrylic paint of the desired color, to your Pledge, somewhere like 10:1, Pledge-to-paint, and experiment from there. This can be used in place of The Dip technique, when you need a color not available using The Dip. As always, apply a matte clear coat after it has dried completely (one hour, minimum, due to it pooling within the folds, and creases of the figure's recesses. Cheers!
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