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Post by onethatwas on Jan 24, 2014 7:12:12 GMT
So I'm about to invest in some reapers minis. On a budget I want to know how the Bones minis compare to the metal ones, because the difference amounts to how many I can invest in and how quickly I can fill my extensive wish list out.
And also, I am looking for some good minis paints that I can get that, once again, are not enormously expensive. I know that paint for actual minis are preferable to what is used for terrain (especially the 2.5 method terrains), but my recollection was Citadel paints going for about 5 USD for a small paint pot. Are there any better options? Ideas or preferences anyone has to suggest.
As much as the Dip method is popular lately (seemingly), I do want to note I likely won't be going that route...the perfectionist in me can't bring myself to do the quick anf easy methods for minis...
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Post by indigo777 on Jan 24, 2014 11:39:40 GMT
I prefer plastic minis to metal. They are way more durable and flexible, and hold just as much detail as metal nowadays. The other advantage of the Reaper and the D&D Board game plastic minis is that in most cases you don't need to prime them and can go straight to painting them.
For paint you can use any acrylic paint, Dreamcoat, AppleBarrel, Folk Art, etc all work, even the ones under a dollar at Walmart. I don't see any reason to get the expensive Citadel paints for Plastic miniatures. I've been painting plastic mini's with cheap acrylic paints for a few years now and had no problems.
Its very important that you seal the plastic minis though after you are done painting them as paint can scratch off without a clearcoat. The best and cheapest clearcoat is Pledge Floor Care Tile and Vinyl Floor Finish with Future Shine. It runs from 6-7 dollars for a huge 27 once bottle that will probably last you a lifetime. Its acrylic based and has a Clean scent applied to it that makes it easy on the nose unlike other sealers. You can also paint on top of it if you need to. The stuff dries completely clear and is tough as hell (its made to be walked on regularly).
It will make your miniature have a wet or shiny look though so in most cases its worth spraying Testor's Dullcoat over it.
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Post by miltonmurphy on Jan 24, 2014 14:19:38 GMT
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Post by sgtslag on Jan 24, 2014 14:54:22 GMT
I second the craft paint option. For better coverage, it has been said that undercoating with orange will improve the look of yellow (see below), and red, as the orange will reduce the number of coats needed to cover (expensive mini's paints carry more pigment per milliliter of paint, so they need fewer coats, but you pay a dear price for that quality).
I paint craft paints directly on Bones mini's, sans primer. No issues. I use craft paints (Folk Art, Apple Barrel, Ceramcoat, etc.). I did not find the orange undercoat to help with yellows, so I may have been off on that -- it would definitely help with red's though! I also seal with Pledge Floor Polish with Future Shine -- incredible stuff. It can be mixed with either inks, or acrylic paints, for custom washes (this is known as, Magic Wash, The Dip's kissing cousin; apply it undiluted, first, no color, to smooth out the surface of the paint, so that it only pools in the recesses; otherwise, it will color all of the microscopic pits of the paint's surface, and it won't look as smooth, or as good).
If you must go with a primer, I would strongly recommend artist's Gesso: available in black, gray, and white; acrylic, brush-on primer for canvas; for painting either acrylics, water colors, or even oils over the top of it. It is not particularly inexpensive, but it goes a long way, and even though it goes on thick, it dries and shrinks to a very thin skin. It has great tooth for acrylic paints. I've used it on metal, resin, and plastic figures.
Many "professional" mini's painters use craft paints; many use expensive, mini's paints. Quality that I've seen posted on the Internet, is the same, on the finished products. I'm a hack painter, churning out masses for tabletop war games, so it really doesn't matter to me, but it is more the skill of the painter, than the tools, though better tools do make the job easier to accomplish -- at a price (true in all professions). Cheers!
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Post by thorswulf on Jan 24, 2014 15:39:34 GMT
I use a mix of craft paints and hobby paints. The craft paints are really handy for large areas of color like black, white, and browns. The Hobby paints are nice because they are usually more intense pigments and stick out nicely on details.
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Post by sgtslag on Jan 24, 2014 18:03:05 GMT
Excellent point, thorswulf, regarding mini's/hobby paints for details! Never considered it before. Could really make them pop, for those who want that. Cheers!
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Post by DMScotty on Jan 24, 2014 18:08:09 GMT
I rarely ever use the expensive fig paints. almost all my paint is run of the mill craft paint.
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slurpy
Paint Manipulator
Posts: 197
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Post by slurpy on Jan 26, 2014 16:04:44 GMT
The only thing 'negative' thing I have to say about Bones is that they are too lightweight, and move around too easily. You can partially remedy that by gluing a 1 inch washer to the base of the mini, but it is not ideal.
Also, Bones cannot be effectively be given a first coat with most paints if they have been watered down, the plastic is very hydrophobic, and you will need to do a second or even third coat as the paint will bead. This can be annoying if you have a collection of old paints that you rescued from oblivion when you started gaming again after a five or ten year hiatus. Straight out of the jar, though, I have never noticed any issues.
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Post by miltonmurphy on Jan 26, 2014 16:10:52 GMT
The only thing 'negative' thing I have to say about Bones is that they are too lightweight, and move around too easily. You can partially remedy that by gluing a 1 inch washer to the base of the mini, but it is not ideal. Also, Bones cannot be effectively be given a first coat with most paints if they have been watered down, the plastic is very hydrophobic, and you will need to do a second or even third coat as the paint will bead. This can be annoying if you have a collection of old paints that you rescued from oblivion when you started gaming again after a five or ten year hiatus. Straight out of the jar, though, I have never noticed any issues. I'd generally agree slurpy but since I don't water down that first coat (or I hand paint a base coat (spray paints don't cure on Bones figures!)) I usually don't have that problem. One suggestion I've heard from folks is to add an acrylic floor finish (like Pledge with Floor Finish) to paints instead of water to thin paint (or hydrate it as with old paints.) I haven't tried it yet though I plan to. The only (fixable) minus that's reported it that the floor gives it a shine (good for floors, generally bad for minis ) but hitting it with a dull coat will fix that. YMMV. Cheers, MM
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Post by adamantinedragon on Jan 26, 2014 17:04:21 GMT
The plastic minis are fine, in some ways the plastic is superior as a playable mini to the metal ones. In other ways the metal is superior. Many times you will find a plastic mini with a bent weapon, limb or wings. You can fix this pretty easily by boiling some water, turning off the heat, and dropping the mini into the water for fifteen minutes or so, then fishing it out and bending the problem segment back and holding it that way (you can use masking tape or rubber bands or other ways to hold the shape while it cools).
Plastic minis, just like metal ones, have a mold release that are used to keep them from sticking to the molds. The mini companies usually wash them, but that doesn't always remove the mold release, so it's best to wash your minis (metal or plastic) in a mild soap or detergent mix and let them dry before painting.
I always use a black or a white primer. It just makes the rest of the process so much easier.
I use the mid-range craft paints at Michaels or Hobby Lobby usually. I wouldn't pay the premium costs for Citaldel paints even if they were worth it, which I don't think they are. I paint way too much and simply cannot afford that luxury, and yes, I do consider that a luxury. I have a relatively small set of paint colors and mix my own colors when I need them.
After painting I always use a matte sealer to seal the mini.
Of course I don't paint minis to enter art competitions. I paint them to play. If you have loftier goals for your painting than I do, you might use different techniques.
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Post by pedrodevaca on Jan 26, 2014 17:28:05 GMT
Another thing to consider, I don't think it has been mentioned yet in this thread, is that certain acrylic pigments (i.e. colors) are challenging to dissolve and have a greater tendency to chalk up or pool pigment in inconsistent ways. A couple of high quality paints for those colors that tend to chalk up in craft paints, might be worth it. Other more experienced painters probably have a better idea of what colors tend to have issues.
Lastly, even if you have cheap paint that isn't being cooperative and you're having problems getting the paint off the brush like you want, you can band-aid some of the problems with various acrylic mediums. Flow-aid, slow-dry, matte medium, and others can remedy some issues depending upon what you're trying to do.
For instance, it's common to dilute with an acrylic Flow-Aid solution rather than water. Future floor shine, as mentioned above, is a common substitute for Flow-Aid. Mediums are kind of expensive, but a single bottle will last a really long time. Liquitex and Golden are common brands. Golden supposedly holds truer colors than Liquitex. I don't know about that. I know Michael's and Hobby Lobby carry Liquitex which means you can get all of this stuff at 40% off with daily coupons.
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Post by onethatwas on Jan 26, 2014 17:49:40 GMT
Thanks for all the tips guys. Doing some research on my own I've concluded that I'm probably going to invest in a small stock of Reapers line craft paints to bolster the cheaper Walmart/Hobby Lobby available acrylics (as suggested here). From what I'm seeing they're less expensive than most high end paints with comparable quality.
I do want to note that my own experience with Citadel paints has never been positive, especially with the color white. It has left a very bad taste in my mouth with the experience, and seeing some youtube tutorials on comparing products gives me a good idea on why they are such a horrible brand for high quality paints...
But in any case, I'll likely be spending alot of time painting as soon as the minis come in. Thanks again for the tips...if anything else comes up I'll probably bump this thread for more advice since everyone is so awesomely helpful. I'll also post up pics as I get them too.
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Post by adamantinedragon on Jan 26, 2014 18:12:56 GMT
I've used Reaper paints for a few very specific projects and have been happy with the results.
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Bael
Room Planner
Posts: 288
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Post by Bael on Jan 27, 2014 14:39:16 GMT
For paints, I use inexpensive craft paint as well. I'm sure they're not the same level of quality as the well known brands but they have many colors and are inexpensive and most coat just fine. They are a little thick sometimes and need thinning with water. I feel no guilt dolloping out a big blob of it like I would with Citadel or Valejo. For Miniatures, I'm all over the place. They have to look good, period. I prefer metal over plastic for the most part. I prefer Julie Guthrie metal Grenadier sculpts for player characters. She is so classic!! No one can touch her in "classic-ness". Bob Olley's Ral Partha minis are so well done as well. I love his goblins. Reaper makes great minis too. Grenadier started out sloppy IMO. I have some of their first minis and they are crude. Guthrie came along and kicked it out of the park. Ral Partha has many good and many "meh" figures. They made so many of any character/monster you can think of. You just have to get what you think looks good. Citadel used to have 1 piece minis and are hard to get if you live in the US. They were crude for the most part but have some cool ones. They went to metal based on plastic hex or squares. I'm not a big fan of these for some reason. They don't look that cool. D&D plastic minis for the most part I think suck for player characters, IMO. They have some great monsters though and some are cheap enough to buy in quantity. Reaper makes some awesome figures. The Bathalians (Mind Flayers) are a favorite for example. I prefer their metal minis but like some of the Bones minis. That Cloud Giantess is awesome! I still haven't painted mine yet. There are problems with plastic bending (weapons) but you can get instances of metal bending as well but just not as much. I too agree with Slurpy that these Bones figs are too light and need based on something (I like wooden discs or squares or coins). Reaper minis tend to be slightly larger then Grenadier and Ral Partha. Mantic has some swell plastic undead minis like ghouls, skeletons and zombies. Mithril are cool metals too but rare and expensive for the most part in the US. They are Lord of the Rings figures. Some are super cool and some are average. They are scaled slightly larger then Grenadier and Ral Partha. For metals, it's best to buy in lots off Ebay. I'm cheap and won't pay more then 20.00 US dollars for a lot. Many times the sellers don't know the names of them and you can get some pretty cool ones for cheap. Search for Ral Partha or Grenadier or Reaper miniatures.
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