guppy
Paint Manipulator
Posts: 202
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Post by guppy on Nov 16, 2017 10:18:57 GMT
In my current the evil shadowy organisation uses a raven/dove sigl like this; I wanted to seal all the correspondence the players intercept with in real wax, however the seal it a bit too thin detail to attempt with a wood burner on a large wooden dovel so I opted to create the above and print it - it sort of looks right but real wax would be ace. So the question is would a 3d printet signet hold up the the heat of wax or would the plastic start to become malleable, thus loosing detail? when answering, please bear in mind that I have 0 practical experience with 3d printers
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Post by sgtslag on Nov 16, 2017 23:25:15 GMT
You could sculpt your signet out of epoxy, like Green Stuff. That is what mini's are sculpted in, then subjected to extreme heat, and pressure -- which does destroy the cured epoxy, but it stills transfers the details to the rubber mold. I would say epoxy putty would be a better approach.
If your sculpting skills are like mine (grade school crafting class level...), don't worry. You are trying to create a medieval sculpting, not a modern day sculptor's work of art. Look at medieval artwork, and I think you will see what I mean. Cheers!
PS:
Most waxes melt above 104 F/40 C. Green Stuff can definitely handle this. So can Polymer Clays, like Sculpey, and Fimo, which cure at 250 F.
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sotf
Advice Guru
Posts: 1,084
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Post by sotf on Nov 17, 2017 1:55:13 GMT
Not really a good idea there.
If you don't already have the specifics of the seal already shown to the players, go to the craft store and look through the metal charms isle. You can probably find a decent dove one there that could be mounted on a dowel more easily than engraving around one.
Also, since it's near christmas, you might also want to take a glance at stamps, the dove is one that tends to pop up a lot with christmas ones, and a lot of the nicer ones can stand up to heat rather well.
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guppy
Paint Manipulator
Posts: 202
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Post by guppy on Nov 17, 2017 8:12:34 GMT
Not really a good idea there. If you don't already have the specifics of the seal already shown to the players, go to the craft store and look through the metal charms isle. You can probably find a decent dove one there that could be mounted on a dowel more easily than engraving around one. Also, since it's near christmas, you might also want to take a glance at stamps, the dove is one that tends to pop up a lot with christmas ones, and a lot of the nicer ones can stand up to heat rather well. I see my skills at posting images from google drive hasn't improved - my initial post was supposed to include this image: suppose I could give it a try with miliput - laying a "saussage" along the line of the bird - the detail of feet/bar and dots aren't that important.
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Post by margaret on Nov 17, 2017 16:48:50 GMT
Actually, you want the lines of the bird pressed INTO the milliput, so they stand UP in the wax when you press it with the seal.
So make a circular smooth blank of milliput and use a rounded-point tool to draw your bird into the milliput and glue it to the end of a dowel when it is hardened.
I recommended a rounded-point tool because it looks like the bird is drawn with one thick line. If it's 2 thin lines, then you would need a fine-point tool. But for a seal, one thick line will work better. And you can include the bar and the dots, but they had better be solid dots. Trying to get a good impression of thin-line little circles in sealing wax could drive you crazy.
FYI, a lot of the bars sold as sealing wax these days are ... well, all I can think of to describe them is "meh". Realio trulio sealing wax, if you come across any, works much better. But for your purposes, whatever is available should be fine. And even wax melted from a red candle will work. They just don't have the same ability to hold the form of the seal as the true sealing wax formulas. Commercially, it's called "banker's wax", because it was used for sealing documents.
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Post by luckyjoe on Nov 18, 2017 22:52:17 GMT
I found a few signet rings on Thingiverse so apparently it can be done. I'm not sure hot hot the sealing wax is after pouring, but I don't think it would be hot enough the degrade a PLA signet. The hot-end on my 3d printer is at about 215 degrees C (419 F) for PLA. I believe the sealing wax melts between (93-148.9 C) or 200-300 degrees F. PLA melts at between 180-220 C. I think you should be okay with a 3d printed PLA signet ring.
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sotf
Advice Guru
Posts: 1,084
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Post by sotf on Nov 19, 2017 4:29:17 GMT
I found a few signet rings on Thingiverse so apparently it can be done. I'm not sure hot hot the sealing wax is after pouring, but I don't think it would be hot enough the degrade a PLA signet. The hot-end on my 3d printer is at about 215 degrees C (419 F) for PLA. I believe the sealing wax melts between (93-148.9 C) or 200-300 degrees F. PLA melts at between 180-220 C. I think you should be okay with a 3d printed PLA signet ring. Just as a major note, not all printers are in plastic.
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Post by curufin on Dec 9, 2017 4:19:23 GMT
The printers that he is talking about print in plastic. Most likely PLA, possibly ABS. The heat from the sealing wax will not harm the stamp. However, I would be worried about the wax sticking to the stamp when you pull it away. It may be necessary to seal the plastic so it is a bit more smooth. Maybe brushed on PVA glue or polyurethane to 'skin' the plastic stamp. And a fine dusting of a release agent like talc, would help as well. I've been meaning to give this a try myself.
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Lynq
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 75
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Post by Lynq on Jan 3, 2018 20:21:55 GMT
Did you happen to try this? I'd be very interested to see if it works!
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Post by erho on Jan 3, 2018 20:35:33 GMT
140 degrees F according to a quick google, but its probably similar to the signet sealing wax. This wax is different from candlewax, as they add in minerals and dyes.
I have a kit with a few single letter signet stamps, the wax stays hot and I believe the metal nature of the stamp helps as a heat sink to cool it more rapidly.
Try out a 3d print plastic cut-off on the wax you intend to use just to see if it deforms.
Green Stuff may work, I dont think temperature per se is the issue; I think its more porous than metal, and it may stick and damage the seal when removing it when its cool. Alternatively brush on a little vaseline before the stamp, it will help it come right off.
I'd go with the charm idea, it looks fairly Egyptian, so you might have some luck in finding an approximation.
Good luck!!
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Post by curufin on Jan 3, 2018 21:41:22 GMT
Did you happen to try this? I'd be very interested to see if it works! Thanks for the reminder, I had completely forgotten about this for guppy . Just spent 20min (5 to design, 10 to print, and 5 to test it) on it. Yes it works. It works just fine. Of course, you should mirror the stamp so the image being stamp is correct. Duh! Going forward I would probably make all the lines a little fatter to get a slightly more bold impression. I didn't do anything to the printed stamp except hot glue it to a handle and give it a nice dusting of talc powder for a release agent. Worked like a charm... I guess I'll be making some custom stamps for my own game.
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Post by erho on Jan 3, 2018 22:00:30 GMT
Very cool!!
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Lynq
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 75
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Post by Lynq on Jan 4, 2018 0:18:34 GMT
Awesome, thanks for updating, definitely going to try this now!
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