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Post by Meph on Feb 28, 2017 15:41:08 GMT
It's gonna get worse before it gets better!
That quote is so appropriate with my group. So a little background here. I have posted before that most of the guys I was playing with are the same I have played with for decades. This group is a little different. Two of the players are from that old group, one is my best friend that I played with through our teen years, one is a new player, and two are a Father/Son combo who I had played with one time about 20 years ago.
What I found out quickly is that the Father/Son combo seemed to believe that they were far superior to a couple people at the table. All of us are in our mid 40s except for the "son" who is 28 I believe. Well these two quickly started making comments at the table under their breath when someone did something they didn't like. They would make comments if a player took longer on their turn than they liked. Of the 7 of us, myself included, we are all law enforcement or active military except for the new guy. Because of that most of us have more conservative leanings. I don't discuss politics at the table, it's just not the place for it. I also don't begrudge anyone else for their beliefs. The new guy is also the polar opposite politically of everyone else at the table and the Father/Son managed to bring it up in ever conversation possible. They were really making the game miserable for the new guy and I had to speak with them about it. They would lay off a little and then start up again.
A couple weeks ago they started on my friend. He is playing a Wizard and has a bit more to his character than the Ranger/Fighter combo of the Father/Son but that didn't matter to them, he took too long on his turns. Finally a week ago Sunday the Son exploded at the table telling them he didn't know why he wasted his time coming to the game because they didn't know how to play their characters and took too long. He ranted about some other stuff, none of which was factual or relevant. It was the end of the night and everyone kinda left asking themselves "wtf just happened".
So I was pretty pissed off myself. The whole course of events was just way out of line. I cancelled this weeks game and sent a group text telling the players that if they can't act like adults they don't belong at my table. Told them to take the week and next week we were going to begin the session by getting everything out on the table or just walking away. I got a text this Monday, a day after the cancelled session, from one of the players telling me that the Father/Son combo quit. They didn't tell me or anyone else, the asked him to pass it along. They said there was too much drama (which they created) and they instead are going to go play Neverwinter on the PS4 together.
While it surprised me that they just up and quit I must say.....I am elated. My 6 man group that I felt was too big, that had all kinds of drama that I have never experienced in a group before, has managed to right itself. I am down to the 4 players that I enjoy playing with and hopefully I can get back to enjoying my game.
This 2+ months with this group is a reminder of why I have played with the same people for decades and DO NOT participate in public play. Hopefully next week I can be back to a regular update.
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sgain
Cardboard Collector
Posts: 22
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Post by sgain on Feb 28, 2017 19:19:18 GMT
whew!!!
Sorry about this.
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Post by tauster on Feb 28, 2017 20:09:52 GMT
Congrats - you & your friends got rid of those guys and still game together without anyone of your friends being fed up and leaving too. Sounds like the best possible outcome for me. Still, I'd encourage you to give new players a chance every now and then, but you should let your other player have a voice on that decision beforehand to avoid hard feelings. You might once in a while have some bad apples that way, but if you even find one really good friend that way (and many of my close friends I learned to know via roleplaying), then it's all worth it.
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Post by margaret on Mar 1, 2017 1:34:56 GMT
Sounds like the worst is over. And kudos to the new player who stuck with it despite being harassed by those two players
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Post by DnDPaladin on Mar 1, 2017 1:40:04 GMT
while they may have been problematic... what i hate about these posts... is that they usually only give the posters version. i'd be so willing to see their point of view or why they didn't like the others or even why they'd act so highly about themselves. but that may only be my psychological mind trying to understand their logic here.
in any cases... this makes me think of MTG when i see people trying to find the perfect solution in a game and taking like literally 5 minutes to do a single turn. i also think that if you can't find a solution in 30 seconds, the you are reaching too much. 30 seconds is a long time to think.
i think they only wanted a faster gameplay. something i understand cause im trying to make my fights in game last less then an hour per fight. i also had players, mainly my cousin who would literally take 5 minutes to play a turn and mostly his turn is, get there and hit. but it took 5 minutes to get that one. that just sucks when you get people that do that. because regaurdless of you being 2 or 4 people or even 8 people... the problem stays the same... he plays 5 minutes, you play only 30 seconds. in the end you lost a lot of time just waiting for that guy. i'd be pissed too.
the other thing i have often realised. is that people are often just close minded. they just go their way and if you dont play their way they dont want to have anything to do with your group. but reality is, if thats the case then you will never play or have never a life. in life we compromise a lot. we have to.
i'm glad you guys are back to your old habits and all... but it seems to me like you guys are too stuck on your own ways. again i wasn't there to see their ways and your post only paints a bad portrait of them and a very good portrait of your group. so i can't say and will not say. but i think the problem wasn't just them for sure. i think it exploded because only the DM talked. the others should of said soemthing me think.
all in all it solved itself and its a good thing, the only bad thing is that 2 people stopped playing a game they liked.
again this prooves what everyone always said, communication is a must for any game to work.
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Post by Meph on Mar 1, 2017 3:57:55 GMT
Congrats - you & your friends got rid of those guys and still game together without anyone of your friends being fed up and leaving too. Sounds like the best possible outcome for me. Still, I'd encourage you to give new players a chance every now and then, but you should let your other player have a voice on that decision beforehand to avoid hard feelings. You might once in a while have some bad apples that way, but if you even find one really good friend that way (and many of my close friends I learned to know via roleplaying), then it's all worth it. We actually have brought in quite a few new players in the last couple years. All of them are still around but some are in other games at the moment. These 2 are the only ones that have rage quit after being called out on their behavior. Right now we are down to 4 but after a conversation tonight we might be looking for a 5th. One of our 4 is a C.O. and swaps a lot so he misses some weeks. Our wizard is active reserves and missed a weekend a month and will miss 3 in April. A 5th person will help make sure we can have 3-4 every week no matter what. Some weeks we may have all 5 but that's ok. We have a lead on a new guy already. He is a local bank manager and he ended up somehow talking D&D with one of our players for about an hour last week and is interested in playing.
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Post by Meph on Mar 1, 2017 4:01:43 GMT
i think they only wanted a faster gameplay. I feel for you if that's all you got out of that post. They had a grand old time making fun of the new guy. They bashed him for his politics and they bashed him because of his job. His first character in 5E and first D&D game in decades he made a cleric. They hated that he had to read his spells as he learned them and pushed him to decide quickly. Then if he did something they didn't like they would berate him for his decision. Then they decided to move on to the wizard next. They had to go. Again, why do you feel the need to critique my posts? "That sucks man, glad it worked out in the end." See how easy that is? I don't care or need your MTG analogies that don't even fit or make sense. You have told us about your groups before so I wouldn't expect you to understand why I expect civility in my game. I spend a lot of time and a LOT of money on my game. I open my house weekly to this group and my kids spectate and sometimes even participate. I don't need a bunch of immature jerks in my game. We have fun and I keep it light. If players take the game so serious that they can't let the new guy read his spells as he is learning then they are in the wrong game. Good food, good beer, and fun games....I want to keep it that way.
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Post by kgstanley81 on Mar 1, 2017 19:12:15 GMT
That sucks man, glad it all worked out in the end. :-)
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Post by Meph on Mar 1, 2017 19:51:34 GMT
That sucks man, glad it all worked out in the end. :-) Thanks man, you're the best =)
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Post by adamsouza on Mar 1, 2017 21:54:15 GMT
Yeah, I've had players that just don't grasp what is socially acceptable behavior when playing a cooperative game, and the atmosphere dramatically gets better when they finally quit.
Glad it worked out for you in the end. =)
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Post by vwilliams32407 on Mar 2, 2017 21:59:51 GMT
Combat in 5E should be lightning fast but ours has slowed to a crawl. Each round the players are discussing their "plans" before they take their turns. Starting this week I am trying something new. Once combat begins, out of character discussion ends. It's a 6 second combat round, not a round table discussion. Each player will take their turn and they can respond to events that happen, not plan them ahead of time while the combat stops for them. Asking for a clarification on a rule or effect is one thing, having everyone coordinate every attack each 6 seconds is absurd. I am also thinking about instituting a stop watch for initiative rounds. Sick of the cleric spending 5 minutes to decide if he is going to cast sacred flame, swing his hammer, heal someone, and/or move. It's just absurd. I think giving each player 10 seconds to decide on their action is more than enough especially when they go last in the round. I'm sorry for commenting on an older post but you have put into words what I knew was going on in my own group but hadn't fully realized it until you mentioned it. I am so thankful for your having devised an answer to this issue. I am going to read them this paragraph prior to our next session and hope it cures the problem.
I'm sorry for briefly highjacking your thread to ask this question Meph but in the vein of the above quote, I am currently running Hoard of the Dragon Queen and am having two new players join us as we wrap up episode 4: On the road. They (a husband and wife) asked me which adventure I am running and upon telling them they said "We are pretty familiar with the plot line thanks to Neverwinter." I have not played Neverwinter so I don't know how closely it follows the written adventure. If anyone else has played it and are familiar with the written adventure how much of the adventure will be spoiled for them?
By the way I enjoyed reading your thread on your adventure. I wish my group could get together as frequently as yours does but I think I would probably get burned out also. Thanks to all the down time between sessions I am able to spend lots of time on terrain and tweeking the encounters to best challenge my players. If your interested in my post of this adventure you can check it out here fatdragongames.proboards.com/thread/3121/lost-mine-phandelver-spoilers. My posting there is more about showing the maps and not so much a play by play write up of the sessions such as yours, again, which I enjoyed. If you'd rather skip the text I have a few slide shows of this and other adventures on youtube at www.youtube.com/channel/UCyGqf9wuQKyIBkYI3lmfMBw.
Thanks again for your thread!
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Post by Meph on Mar 2, 2017 22:48:13 GMT
I will check out your thread when I get a chance. I opened it up and love the cragmaw hideout tiles. It's funny how digging up my old comment about the delay in combat shows how things have changed. This week we are going to make a decision as a group as to how we will handle it from here on out. The plan is that when your initiative turn arrives, if you aren't ready then I will move to the next player in line. We have to decide if they will move down the line until their are ready or move straight to the end of the line. Either way, if a player isn't ready in a timely manner then their turn will be delayed. If I get to the end and still no decision, the next round begins.
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Post by DnDPaladin on Mar 2, 2017 23:19:48 GMT
You know meph, we dont even need your stories, but im not saying that out loud. so just saying... by faster game i mean video games. you know what they actually refered to, what they decided to leave to. because some players wants a mathematic game a game where everything is squared. but hey if you like to be praised and thats all that matters to you, then fine by me. just dont expect anyone to just think like you do. after all im different then you, we're all different then you, and to be honest in this forum what i hate the most is that everyone should just sat single two words stuff that say good job or else you get shitted at. so basically no one here can have an opinion except if its to say the same thing the author says.
sorry but im not that guy. i love reading your stories. i love reading other DMs game because i want to improve as a DM. but the last thing i wanna hear are biased "my group is great, this guy sucked" post like this one ! and while i think most people here will say otherwise just for the sake of agreeing with you, i think none of us wanted to hear this story !
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Post by Meph on Mar 3, 2017 1:17:17 GMT
You know meph, we dont even need your stories, but im not saying that out loud. Actually, you did just say it out loud. I don't need you in my stories so do us all a favor and gtfo! It's really simple, if you don't want to read my stuff then stay out of my threads. I don't seek you out, in fact I have made it a point in the last year to avoid you and yet here you are again. Just leave me alone. I didn't post my story of my group looking for any praise, just a way for me to vent....since it is MY game thread. Don't like it, don't read it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2017 2:50:40 GMT
DnDPaladin Don't be a dick. Meph has clearly expressed that he does not want your input in his threads, and I think that is reasonable considering your attitude.
Consider this an official warning.
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Post by vwilliams32407 on Mar 28, 2017 14:03:59 GMT
So Meph, any updates to your adventure? Aside from the one troller I've really enjoyed your updates.
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Post by Meph on Mar 29, 2017 10:26:53 GMT
Unfortunately, the group never recovered from the drama. We went into the next week with our 4 man group hoping for less drama at the table. One of our 4 had to work so one of the players ran 2 characters. It was a tough night with the group encountering a Gorgon. I gave them every opportunity to run but the new guy (paladin) decided to try and fight it. In the process the other fighter (being run by the cleric) was turned to stone and that's when the shit storm began. The party started bickering with the cleric berating the paladin. The party escaped inside the ruined outpost, even managed to drag the petrified fighter to safety. Once inside they told the paladin that he was now taking point and leading the party. Being new to the game he kinda froze up and couldn't seem to make a decision which set the cleric off even more. It was a bad night all around for everyone involved and put the nail in the coffin for me.
For my own sanity I decided that the game was no longer fun for me and I ended the group. The paladin is running LMOP for his daughter and her friends. The cleric is now running a 2E group with the 2 players that quit earlier (his uncle and cousin). As for me, I think this may have been my last hurrah for D&D gaming. This whole game with a bunch of bickering adults really took the wind out of my sails. For now I am taking a break. I met a guy locally that runs a bi-weekly 2E game that he invited me to but for now I am staying away. He also runs some miniature games bi-monthly. He just invited me to an upcoming Frostgrave game that I am going to check out.
I did buy the latest Frostgrave Folio and will get back to working on terrain later this year. For now I am focusing on my arcade collecting and restoration. For the moment I am down, but not out. I will be back with updates later when I figure out where my gaming is going.
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Post by kgstanley81 on Mar 29, 2017 14:04:51 GMT
That sucks, sorry to hear
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Post by skunkape on Mar 29, 2017 15:43:16 GMT
Hey, Meph, sorry to hear about the group's melt-down. But like you said, you might just want to take a break from gaming for a while. Maybe if you decide to game, play for a while instead of GMing. You might find a while down the road, 3 months, 6 months, or even a year, that you feel refreshed and ready to start again! If you end up making some terrain, don't be like me, post it here for us to see! I really need to get off my backside and post some of my work!
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Post by vwilliams32407 on Mar 29, 2017 18:01:59 GMT
I'm sorry to hear things fell apart. I guess I should consider myself blessed. Through all of the past six years of my DM’ing I’ve only had to remove one person from the group. He would put a huge pile of dice on the table and when he rolled, his dice would roll into the pile and to often he would look up and say “I rolled a 20”. I don’t watch players roll because I trust them so I just went with it. The other players started complaining about how many 20’s he would roll so I talked to him about it but nothing ever changed. Why anyone would want to cheat like that is beyond me. Half the fun of role playing is the uncertainty of the rolls. To quote Jim Morrison, “people are strange“.
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