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Post by teiwazlonewolf on Mar 24, 2016 12:45:46 GMT
I need ideas for traps that won't set off a rogues trap sense. Does anyone have any ideas?
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Post by l7arkness on Mar 24, 2016 12:58:06 GMT
What game/edition?
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Post by teiwazlonewolf on Mar 24, 2016 13:04:20 GMT
3.5
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Post by l7arkness on Mar 24, 2016 13:06:51 GMT
Well all trap sense does in 3.5 is bump the reflex and doge bonus made against the trap, so the easiest way to negate that would be to make it a will save or just jack up the reflex save and attack by 6
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Post by curufin on Mar 24, 2016 13:07:24 GMT
I didn't think that a rogues trap finding skill was passive. I thought they had to be actively searching for traps. I'll have to recheck 3.5 rules...
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Post by curufin on Mar 24, 2016 13:10:17 GMT
Well all trap sense does in 3.5 is bump the reflex and doge bonus made against the trap, so the easiest way to negate that would be to make it a will save or just jack up the reflex save and attack by 6 Ah, yes. I see the question now. As Darkness said, non-reflex based traps would be the way to go. Gas traps that require a fort save. Mind affecting traps that require a will save.
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Post by DnDPaladin on Mar 24, 2016 18:47:25 GMT
remember, your players learn a lot...
make too much traps like tomb of horrors, and your players ends up with a 10 foot pole to trigger them from a distance. and search every 5 feet.
make too much anti rogue traps and its your barbarian friend who will just walk thru them to trigger them and survive because, well HP bag !
make too much AC targetting traps and its your fighter or cleric who will walk thru them.
morale of the story, whatever you do it wont change how your players view the traps.
so what i suggest is like the others... but i also suggest that you do put more dangerous traps all together. otherwise the "walk and let them happen" might just be your biggest problem.
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Post by adamantinedragon on Mar 25, 2016 22:16:46 GMT
I always treat rogues or whatever the "scout" class is that does the trapfinding as always looking for traps. It's one thing for a player sitting in a nice comfy room with soda and chips in front of them to forget to look for traps. It's a whole 'nother thing for a character who has spent years of their lives training for the role, crawling through the shadows of a dank, dangerous dungeon to "forget" to look for traps.
And again I find myself in agreement with DnD, at least in part. The more you try to negate your players' character's key abilities, the more the game starts to feel like a DM vs Player endeavor. In my games traps are where they would logically be, designed as the creatures setting the traps would likely set them up. Once you start thinking things like "well, if I use a pit trap, the party rogue is goiing to laugh, so I should use a will-based trap instead" you've gone a good ways down the path of metagaming in what I consider to be the "wrong" way. Just my $.02. Set the traps, roll the dice, and every now and then, the rogue will miss one.
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Post by DnDPaladin on Mar 26, 2016 7:21:07 GMT
Bigger traps helps and by that i mean more damaging traps. instead of making the usual... say... 4d4 dart coming out of the wall. i do them with poison, its like 4d4 + 4d6 poison. and at that even if they are lower levels. the goal here is to make every traps a danger. otherwise the players will just start saying that your traps are just that... nuisance. a trap is never set to be a nuisance more then it is to either capture an individual or kill it. so to me traps should always be deadly. of course as players level up they are going to make those traps less deadly, so its up to you to gauge what dealy is at what levels. but yeah it really helps them understand how traps can be very dangerous.
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Post by thedmg on Mar 26, 2016 11:18:16 GMT
Fake traps to lure them down the wrong path into an ambush
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pepebe
Paint Manipulator
Posts: 187
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Post by pepebe on Mar 26, 2016 20:24:37 GMT
What's the purpose of the trap?
I mean not all traps are built for hackn and slashn.
Don't forget that cleaning up all the gooey remains costs time and or money. Also it would be a shame to damage all the valuable equipment carried around by adventures...
Disinformation? Stopping the party from advancing so reinforcements can arrive? Giving opponents time to prepare themselves? Traps can do many things.
Disarming them doesn't always mean something good happens. What if you MUST trigger a trap to get a key or to find an important inscription? How about a group of insane fire worshippers that get really suspicious if you meet them later in a dungeon and you still have your eyebrows?
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Post by bluecloud2k2 on Mar 27, 2016 12:54:25 GMT
remember, your players learn a lot... make too much traps like tomb of horrors, and your players ends up with a 10 foot pole to trigger them from a distance. and search every 5 feet. make too much anti rogue traps and its your barbarian friend who will just walk thru them to trigger them and survive because, well HP bag ! make too much AC targetting traps and its your fighter or cleric who will walk thru them. morale of the story, whatever you do it wont change how your players view the traps. so what i suggest is like the others... but i also suggest that you do put more dangerous traps all together. otherwise the "walk and let them happen" might just be your biggest problem. That's when I break out a wand of animate dead and use zombies as Polish Mine Detectors.
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Post by bluecloud2k2 on Mar 27, 2016 13:06:38 GMT
Rogue Proof Traps of the space-time flavor:
Alternate Gravity Zone - This section of the dungeon either has Gravity that is fully reversed, or at maybe a 45' or 90' angel. Feel free to have this randomly change.
Slow Time Zone Traps - This traps hits everything within the blast radius with a 50% reduction in Movement Speed, -5 penalty to all initiative checks, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks and save throws.
Stasis Zone Trap - this trap literally freezes time in the area, basically granting everything outside of it the benefit of a time stop spell (so 1d4+1 rounds of free actions).
Entropy Field trap - this causes all non-magical gear to receive the broken condition.
Teleportation Traps - anything that enters a certain 10' by 10' cube is shunted to either a fixed location or a random location. Targeted locations can either be mundane, dangerous, or embarrassing.
Teleportals - these doors or paintings (or portals) do the same thing as a Teleportation Trap, only are obvious. There may not be a corresponding Teleportal that leads back the way you came...
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Post by DnDPaladin on Mar 27, 2016 22:53:23 GMT
Bluecloud, i wish you luck on finding corpses still able to be reanimated when you are in a dungeon. people think animate dead just happens, but its false it requires corpses. and there is a finite number of them. its like the decanter of endless water and people using it to find traps. or bypassing pit traps by simply filling them up and swimming above it. too many people believe the decanter to be a game breaking magic item... but honestly its always the fault of the DM if a magic item breaks the game. because in the end he's the one who decides what happens. in my games the decanter wouldn'T work the way they intend to because thats not how erosion or dungeons are built. seriously if your dungeon is water proof there is a big problem in your construction.
when building a trap you dont need to be very very original and hyper complicated. but you definitely have to understand that it is your players job to find a solution against the trap. you have to let go at some point if they do find the trap and dearm it one or the other. the problem here isn't the player at this point. its the DM. because he so want his players to fall into the trap that if they do find a way around it, hes becoming depressed.
thats the same thing as developping a good adventure in a dungeon and having your players just go the other way. you are setting yourself up for depressing times if you do that. so all i can say is... develop your traps, but dont be too focussed on them. be prepared for your players to be able to find a way around it.
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Post by onethatwas on Mar 28, 2016 1:06:53 GMT
Any biological component usually overcomes a rogues trap sense. A Gelatinous Cube is not a trap...just a creature. But they act like a trap.
Dark Mantles work the same. But they are obvious as well.
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Post by bluecloud2k2 on Mar 28, 2016 4:34:01 GMT
DnDPalladin: If I can't find enough corpses to reanimate, I'm doing something wrong.
That said, wands of animate dead are expensive.
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Post by bluecloud2k2 on Mar 28, 2016 4:35:03 GMT
A wand of summon monster 1 also works well.
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Post by DnDPaladin on Mar 28, 2016 23:07:04 GMT
and if the DM do not allow you to have a wand of animate dead or anyt other magic items of your choice ?
here we're talking about traps and how to make em usefull. not how to disarm the said traps with ease, there are tons of ways to do that. and depending on the editions your playing and the DMs you are playing with. magical items may not be the most easiest of things to get.
as an exemple, i am not giving magic items to my players nor do i let them buy them our of shelves, if you get something its gonna be because you found it somewhere in a treasure hoard. and i take the tables to generate treasures so magic items ar a rarity in my campaigns. mainly because too many magic items is like not enough, it ruins the game too easily.
so yeah, giving your players too many magic items or giving the the ability to buy the magic item of their choice is a really esy way to make power, creep even more in the game. this is why traps are hard to setup. what we want are mostly to make them like they are in movies, but none of th eplayers wants to die and thus take movies as exemples of what not to do. and thus in the end we end up with not very cinematic trappings. which makes the trap seems pretty useless in the end.
when i wanna make them a cinematic trap, i simply dont let them roll for it. it just happens.
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Post by l7arkness on Mar 29, 2016 12:14:35 GMT
and if the DM do not allow you to have a wand of animate dead or anyt other magic items of your choice ? here we're talking about traps and how to make em usefull. not how to disarm the said traps with ease, there are tons of ways to do that. and depending on the editions your playing and the DMs you are playing with. magical items may not be the most easiest of things to get. as an exemple, i am not giving magic items to my players nor do i let them buy them our of shelves, if you get something its gonna be because you found it somewhere in a treasure hoard. and i take the tables to generate treasures so magic items ar a rarity in my campaigns. mainly because too many magic items is like not enough, it ruins the game too easily. so yeah, giving your players too many magic items or giving the the ability to buy the magic item of their choice is a really esy way to make power, creep even more in the game. this is why traps are hard to setup. what we want are mostly to make them like they are in movies, but none of th eplayers wants to die and thus take movies as exemples of what not to do. and thus in the end we end up with not very cinematic trappings. which makes the trap seems pretty useless in the end. when i wanna make them a cinematic trap, i simply dont let them roll for it. it just happens. im my experience there is no such thing as a PC that has to much power for the game magic or no magic as long as the power is there for every character and not just funneled into one player its easy to adjust the campaign, (speaking from a players perspective) as for traps there all well and good but my DM views them as a common place thing, like check the bread box common and it get super damn annoying
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Post by DnDPaladin on Mar 29, 2016 22:56:37 GMT
darkness... power creeps a lot as you give power to the players. by power creeping we mean that player need much more firepower against them to kill them. hence why no games were ever going beyond level 10 in 3E. because in 3E magic items were making players able to defeat level 20-25 monsters with ease. in 5E with capped ability, the last thing you want is for your players to reach those caps easily. thats all i meant. do as you please... if you like to make your players gods then go for it.
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