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Post by indigo777 on May 15, 2014 2:08:29 GMT
I bought a Reaper Bones Shadow Dragon miniature and now I'm trying to figure out how to paint it.
For those who don't know a D&D Shadow dragon has black/dark yet transparent scales so it looks like its scales are made of a shadow. The miniature is opaque though so I'm trying to figure out a way to simulate scale transparency using paint.
Any ideas?
My current thinking is to lay down a dark gray base coat, drybrush a lighter gray over it, then add a couple layers of a clear sealer, then blackwash over the sealer so the underlayers show through.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by DMScotty on May 15, 2014 2:56:47 GMT
Bright highlights can help
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Post by teazia on May 15, 2014 5:08:27 GMT
Transparent colors are the answer. You might need to bump up to artists acrylics to get the necessary transparencies in the transparent pigments. Craft paints tend to have opacifiers in them, but you can check.
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Post by ashrothedm on May 15, 2014 11:23:17 GMT
Translucent: Same colors that you would use for normal painting, but the color below the translucent object will be more blurry and out of focus. Since it is a miniature, I would use a flat clear sealer to help with the effect.
Things I would try: - Blurry highlights with a flat clear coat
- Normal coat, thick flat clear coat on the translucent parts, wash or translucent paint on top
- Normal coat, translucent wash or paint over that.
A google image search for "Black translucent" has a lot of example images, but the two best proxy effects are - Black Nylon over the base color
- Sunglasses over the base color
If you have black nylon or sunglasses, try placing those over the color you want as the base and paint what you see. I think that might help get the right color selection. I think the sunglasses are too glossy so black nylon wins my vote for a proxy-shadow-dragon-scale-example, and not just because the sample images are more fun to look at than the sunglasses.
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Post by thedmg on May 15, 2014 15:09:27 GMT
Transparent aluminium. I am sure Scotty has the formul... oh wait... no... wrong Scotty.
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Post by tauster on May 15, 2014 17:55:54 GMT
Transparent aluminium. I am sure Scotty has the formul... oh wait... no... wrong Scotty. Haven't seen the movie in a decade, but it took me only about 1/10 sec to get it. ...if only I could remember other stuff just as well!
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Post by thedmg on May 16, 2014 22:27:35 GMT
Computer? COMPUTER? (talking into the mouse). Classic! Best trek film of all. Too much LDS!
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 23:04:38 GMT
www.necrotales.com/necroTutorials/tut_gemstonesf.phpSo in this very basic tutorial, you can see that the illusion of depth is created by the shadow effect of the undercoat/basecoat, with the surface effect being achieved through highlights. You could get a really accurate effect if you had a model that was only going to be viewed from a certain angle, but like Object Based Lighting effects, this can be ruined if they miniature is going to be seen from all sorts of different angles. Creating the illusion of depth to a two dimensional surface is a tricky thing to master, so I suggest you trawl the internet for examples of model aircraft cockpits, dials and gauges, screens, windows, gems, crystal objects and the like.. look at the surfaces and the blends of pigments used, even stare at them with one eye closed if it helps. Observation and replication is the key.
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neil
Paint Manipulator
Posts: 134
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Post by neil on May 17, 2014 3:57:30 GMT
Its a bone mini so no need to undercoat it that will help a little
One thing to consider After your have your base coat and multiple layers of highlights and ink washes Apply multiple thin layers of clear coat Then layers of very thin ink and VERY thin easy highlights over the clear coat I think if its thin layers painted over white (Bone fig) it should work
No matter what you choose to do I would like to see pics of how it turns out
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neil
Paint Manipulator
Posts: 134
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Post by neil on May 17, 2014 4:02:11 GMT
www.necrotales.com/necroTutorials/tut_gemstonesf.phpSo in this very basic tutorial, you can see that the illusion of depth is created by the shadow effect of the undercoat/basecoat, with the surface effect being achieved through highlights. You could get a really accurate effect if you had a model that was only going to be viewed from a certain angle, but like Object Based Lighting effects, this can be ruined if they miniature is going to be seen from all sorts of different angles. Creating the illusion of depth to a two dimensional surface is a tricky thing to master, so I suggest you trawl the internet for examples of model aircraft cockpits, dials and gauges, screens, windows, gems, crystal objects and the like.. look at the surfaces and the blends of pigments used, even stare at them with one eye closed if it helps. Observation and replication is the key. Yea forget what I said earlier and DO THIS. I'm doing this on the next fig I paint even i I have to superglue a little gem on it. But you can paint thin inks and highlights over clear coat
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Post by indigo777 on May 17, 2014 5:49:40 GMT
Thanks, for all the advice. Going to test out several of the methods before painting the dragon. www.necrotales.com/necroTutorials/tut_gemstonesf.phpSo in this very basic tutorial, you can see that the illusion of depth is created by the shadow effect of the undercoat/basecoat, with the surface effect being achieved through highlights. You could get a really accurate effect if you had a model that was only going to be viewed from a certain angle, but like Object Based Lighting effects, this can be ruined if they miniature is going to be seen from all sorts of different angles. Creating the illusion of depth to a two dimensional surface is a tricky thing to master, so I suggest you trawl the internet for examples of model aircraft cockpits, dials and gauges, screens, windows, gems, crystal objects and the like.. look at the surfaces and the blends of pigments used, even stare at them with one eye closed if it helps. Observation and replication is the key. That is an awesome method. If the dragons scales were big enough I'd love to have painted each scale like the gem. I think I will try it on the large belly scales. Bookmarking the link for future use. Its a bone mini so no need to undercoat it that will help a little One thing to consider After your have your base coat and multiple layers of highlights and ink washes Apply multiple thin layers of clear coat Then layers of very thin ink and VERY thin easy highlights over the clear coat I think if its thin layers painted over white (Bone fig) it should work No matter what you choose to do I would like to see pics of how it turns out I ran into a problem with the first 2 Reaper Dragons I painted, Ebonwrath a black dragon and Deathsleet a white dragon. So now I undercoat all my mini's even the reaper ones. Both of the Reaper dragon's I painted had their paint start flaking off about 3 days after painting starting at the thinnest most flexible parts even though I had sealed them. Deathsleet's eventually completely peeled off in a solid sheets like a snake's shedded skin, it even kept the scale shapes like a snake skin. Ebonwrath's flaked off randomly especially in the wings and I had to give it a rubbing alcohol bath to strip the rest of the paint off. The acryllic paint I used did not grip on to or bond with the plastic of the mini but instead dried in a separate layer over it. I'm not blaming reaper though, it was completely my fault for using cheap paints. I ran into the same problem with a few of the Ravenloft and Drizzt board game mini's as well. To remedy the problem I bought an 8 once jar of Pro Art Premium Gesso canvas primer after the forum recommended it for a D&D mini I had the same problem with. I have started priming the mini's with a layer of it then putting a base color on top of it when it dries. And now I know why so many people recommend this stuff. The gesso bonds awesomely with the plastic minis and gives something for the paints to grip onto without loosing the surfaces detail. I like to think of it as microscopic paint velcro, lol. Its a nicer surface to paint on as well, paint goes on easier and clearer and I've found I have to do fewer coats. Its been a couple weeks since I repainted the 2 reaper dragons and 2 D&D dragon's that had the same problem using gesso as a primer and so far all of them are holding their paint. The paint bonds so strong I can actually fold the dragon wings in on themselves and the paint won't crack, flake or anything whereas before a slight flexing of a wing would have resulted in a large crack in the paint forming or a large flake falling off.
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neil
Paint Manipulator
Posts: 134
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Post by neil on May 17, 2014 6:30:06 GMT
Thanks, for all the advice. Going to test out several of the methods before painting the dragon Both of the Reaper dragon's I painted had their paint start flaking off about 3 days after painting starting at the thinnest most flexible parts even though I had sealed them. Deathsleet's eventually completely peeled off in a solid sheets like a snake's shedded skin, it even kept the scale shapes like a snake skin. Ebonwrath's flaked off randomly especially in the wings and I had to give it a rubbing alcohol bath to strip the rest of the paint off. The acryllic paint I used did not grip on to or bond with the plastic of the mini but instead dried in a separate layer over it. I'm not blaming reaper though, it was completely my fault for using cheap paints. I ran into the same problem with a few of the Ravenloft and Drizzt board game mini's as well. To remedy the problem I bought an 8 once jar of Pro Art Premium Gesso canvas primer after the forum recommended it for a D&D mini I had the same problem with. I have started priming the mini's with a layer of it then putting a base color on top of it when it dries. And now I know why so many people recommend this stuff. The gesso bonds awesomely with the plastic minis and gives something for the paints to grip onto without loosing the surfaces detail. I like to think of it as microscopic paint velcro, lol. Its a nicer surface to paint on as well, paint goes on easier and clearer and I've found I have to do fewer coats. Its been a couple weeks since I repainted the 2 reaper dragons and 2 D&D dragon's that had the same problem using gesso as a primer and so far all of them are holding their paint. The paint bonds so strong I can actually fold the dragon wings in on themselves and the paint won't crack, flake or anything whereas before a slight flexing of a wing would have resulted in a large crack in the paint forming or a large flake falling off. Sure Gesso works for canvas so it would work on minis. Good idea - I have not tried it on minis but I put together canvas from time to time. My experience with bones minis is you have to clean them with hot soapy water and an old tooth brush to ruff up the surface and clean off the mold release residue.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 13:08:34 GMT
Yeah, its highly important with plastic cast miniatures to clean them with warm, soapy water and dry them off prior to painting, otherwise even the best paint is going to flake or bead up. I tend use a even, thin coat of black to start, then I dry brush a white layer just so I can see what I am doing, and to establish a layer of paint that all the rest can easily adhere to.. then its base coat and either dry brushing or adding successive blends of lighter mixes, ending with highlights and any darker wash if required.. I keep meaning to get some Pledge to try that out as a final coat. Oh, and I tend to use very cheap acrylic paints, because I don't water them down into inks washes, so how they hold up when diluted is not really as much of an issue.
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Post by adamantinedragon on May 18, 2014 18:24:36 GMT
I would have probably used the flaked off paint as a game aid, providing a clue to the party or something. Nothing like some recently shed dragon skin to get people's attention... Don't they shed when they are getting larger?
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