hakon
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Post by hakon on Feb 22, 2017 2:32:59 GMT
I created this trap for a large party (14 members) that were getting very full of themselves and thought they could handle anything I threw at them.
your party enters through the large arch way and into a large 70' diameter round room with a 40' high ceiling. Opposite the arch way is a large wooden and iron clad double door, measuring 30' in height and 25' in width. in the center of the room is a chain that hangs from a small hole in the ceiling and disappears into a hole in the floor. A large brass plaque is mounted near the hole in the floor and it reads; "Do not pull chain, certain death awaits" if the group uses knock or anything else to try to open the doors it will fail. If the party tries to listen at the doors they will hear nothing.
The doors are a prop. The trap is this, my group decided to have the thief pull the chain as the others prepared to fight whatever came out of the doors. Thief pulls the chain and large portions of the ceiling begin to collapse onto the party members. whoever pulls the chain escapes the room with five successful Dex checks -2. Those closer to the doors need 7-10 successful Dex checks -2. Those between the Chain and arch way need 1-3 successful Dex checks -2.
when this was over the survivors were, two mages, the thief who pulled the chain, a ranger, and a cleric. the rest died. the surviving party members recovered their fallen and with help of the mages were able to get them back to where, with a lot of sacrifice and gold and etc. they were able to resurrect them. It was a great way to show the group that they could be their worst enemy.
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hakon
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Post by hakon on Feb 23, 2017 4:56:53 GMT
I also wanted to point out that the reason for this was the group was doing less and less roleplaying and more and more just hack and slash, to the point that the thieves, mages and clerics were more like after thoughts. It was a very fighter heavy group. The party consisted of; 2 thieves, 2 mages, 1 cleric, 2 rangers and 7 regular fighters.
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Post by Sam on Feb 23, 2017 7:45:48 GMT
14 is a BIG party. And only (4 letter word alert) one cleric. Sounds like trouble. Ceiling meets floor traps are notoriously deadly, but a common enough event in caverns and mines.
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hakon
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Post by hakon on Feb 23, 2017 11:03:54 GMT
14 is a BIG party. And only (4 letter word alert) one cleric. Sounds like trouble. Ceiling meets floor traps are notoriously deadly, but a common enough event in caverns and mines. I agree it is a common trap, this was a little poetic in the fact that, if they had not pulled the chain and had searched the hallway they would have found the treasure room. The fighters had come to dominate the group and get most of the XP. They also couldn't really be angry with anyone but themselves. This allowed the other players and characters to catch up a bit and the fighters to realize they need to think things through. Also I tried to get someone to play another cleric but they thought rangers would be good enough. This was the largest number of fighters I ever had in one group. They are usually more balanced.
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Post by DnDPaladin on Feb 24, 2017 22:14:14 GMT
blah, i just hate when people tell a player you should play a cleric cause we are missing that. basically doing so railroad the player into playing something he may not want at all.
if anything i preffer balancing my encounters around the players choices then balancing around the usual well rounded group.
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Post by bluecloud2k2 on Feb 25, 2017 23:35:29 GMT
blah, i just hate when people tell a player you should play a cleric cause we are missing that. basically doing so railroad the player into playing something he may not want at all. if anything i preffer balancing my encounters around the players choices then balancing around the usual well rounded group. That reminds me of an introduction RA Salvatore (I think) wrote in one of his Forgotten Realms books... Something about Cleric being the class that no one wanted to play, so when you joined a pre-existing group the new guy always got stuck with the Cleric. Or something like that When I run the game, if no one wants to play a cleric, then I run an NPC cleric that gets no Loot, but still gets XP.
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Post by dragon722 on Feb 27, 2017 1:32:03 GMT
That teaches players nothing when the DM plays the cleric because no one else wants too....clerics and healers are essential unless the player has an unlimited supply of healing potions and scrolls!!! On top of that, the character should be "awarded" a portion of experience and treasure since he or she is doing some of the work and possibly fighting and putting their lives on the line. Usually though this is agreed upon when hired and agreed/negotiated.
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Post by DnDPaladin on Mar 1, 2017 0:43:02 GMT
thats the thing you dont need a cleric if you have spells that literally remove people from combat like charm person or fear spells. the thing is that healing is literally not the best option at saving people.
Exemple... my Level 6 (Sorcerer 5 Cleric 1) character was able to just twinned spells Shield of faith and then distant spell warding bond on our fighter during a night watch that has gone bad. and while everyone was doubting ourabilities to win that fight cause nobody had armor on. i said wE'll be fine and we just crushed it because giving +3 armor and resistance to all to our fighter was just awesome.
Exemple... My level 4 wizard blade singer tanking a fight with his 24 AC and misty step around the field to help keep people under control.
Exemple... My level 3 warlock friend, who just feared2 guys and Crown of Madness the third one so that only 1 enemy was actually fighting. who needs healers when you have all that controlling element.
reality being, that healing isn't a must. it may have been back in 1e and 2e days... but by even at that time wizards were just that great compared to all other classes that really at level 4-5 there was no way a healer was a necessity. i mean there is a reason why fighters are always depicted as useless against spell casters. while healing is a good thing, having a strategy is much better then just healing. even when all hell breaks lose you can still strategise your way out.
exemple... door fighting, that literally removes half the battle field out of combat.
fact of the matter is that those who saycleric is a neessity in agame... just want resurection and healing like in video games without realising that this game is simulation games not MMORPG. in real life you wouldn'T just stand there in the middle of a 80 feet room and shoot your way while the healer does the job, you'd be hiding behind pillars, you'd be using your environment to boost your chances at survival. and thats what people should be doing in the games. not just stand there with hige fighter and having healer behind.
also, your DM is pretty bad if he doesn't use his monsters to the max and just target the healer right away and kill him. i mean a dragon fighting on the ground is pretty dumb already. but a dragon fighting on the ground and ignoring the small fry just to kill the tank thinking the tank dies the rest dies. is just ridiculously stupid for a creature that has that much intellect.
exemple... my players using corridors and doors to kill 12 goblins ina room. they thought they were shit by just showing up throwing arrows and hiding behind the walls again. until one of them shows up to shoot and get sprinkled by arrows. because the goblins just stood there and waited for him to show up literally using the ready action to kill whatever was showing up. at that point they said, oh snap they are intelligent goblins. and i was like DUH you think goblins are stupid because you are a racist bastard. and everyone laughs cause yeah, he was a racist bastard in game. at this point they decided to run away because clearly this strategy wouldn'T work because they have higher numbers and archers to back them up.
so healing is not the game really. healing is something we do to gain time. but what happens once you get into a downward spiral which happens often when healing ?
last exemple... same Wizard level 4... everyone goes down except him. because 24 AC with shield... 2 enemies left... i have a single level 2 spell slot left... so that means i have to either kill the 2 guys or simply run away and be the sole survivor... or i could go option C and just level 1 spell AID my friends back to life. which is what i did. so up to 3 people around me in a 30 feet radius gets a number of temporary HPs which since they were all at 0. just suddently gets around 5 HPs to do something. and Temp HPs last for like until the next rest or until my sell ends. fortunately that spell lasted 8 hours or until they lose the points. dont remember how i got the spell though because its a cleric /paladin spell. so in any cases i had just reanimated all fallen comrades.
you really dont need a cleric in your group if you play your character well enough. remember this is simulation game, not MMORPG where you can just tank and spank your way in.
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Post by onethatwas on Mar 1, 2017 4:20:55 GMT
On the subject of needing a healer in a group...
I once played a healer for a 6 party group. I never once healed the party with magic.
What I DID do was steal all their flint and steel supplies, charge them exorbitant prices for camp set up and healing skill uses...and kept them alive for 2 in game weeks during a typhoon (along with about 10 NPC's) with judicious use of environment protection spells and supervision of ametuer heal checks.
No real complaints. One of the best loved characters I've ever played (which is not because he had a shining personality...he had a -1 to CHA. Luckily he had absurd racial bonuses to Bluff checks).
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geroblue
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My apologies for not dropping by more often.
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Post by geroblue on Aug 19, 2017 17:44:58 GMT
Having 2 clerics means party survival in my game sessions, just don't have them standing near each other. Most of my players understood that party covering the character classes upped their chances of party survival.
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yve
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Post by yve on Oct 19, 2017 16:06:54 GMT
The fighters had come to dominate the group and get most of the XP. Giving XP only to the one character who kills a monster is exactly what causes this kind of unbalance. Imagine the group being ambushed at a river crossing. The fighters / paladins will obviously step forward and engage the bandits in combat. Mages, Rangers and low level characters will most likely try to keep their distance, attacking in any way they are capable of. Even if a low level char has no ranged weapon or spell and does no damage in the entire fight, s/he still experiences the ambush, watching their companions fight, probably fearing for their life. So why should they not get any XP, which is just a numerical representation of life experience? Even if the group flees from a fight they cannot win, why should they not get any XP? They gained the valuable experience that running might be better that dying. If the group decides to bribe, trick or even befriend their enemies instead of killing them, they still deserve XP in the amount of life experience a person would have gained if the situation were real. On the other hand, if a fighter character has slain their way through hundreds of goblinoid enemies and kills the next bunch of orcs, maybe they shouldn't get any XP when they just applied the same old skills to the problem and haven't learned anything new...
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