|
Post by algardunraven on Dec 5, 2013 1:25:53 GMT
Hey, need some advice please. I am getting ready to paint a couple of old Ral Partha minis and was wondering if I should prime them first or should I just paint them up. I can't remember the last time I painted metal minis. Any input is appreciated. Thanks
|
|
|
Post by adamantinedragon on Dec 5, 2013 1:33:20 GMT
It is usually a good idea to prime metal miniatures, and I generally prime all my minis before painting them. I tend to use black primer but some people recommend gray or even white primer.
|
|
dmbrad
Paint Manipulator
Posts: 166
|
Post by dmbrad on Dec 5, 2013 1:34:16 GMT
Definitely prime metal minis.
|
|
|
Post by thorswulf on Dec 5, 2013 15:16:26 GMT
Before priming the minis, wash them in hot, soapy water, and let them dry. This removes any oil, or other substance like dust, from them so the primer adheres better.
|
|
|
Post by DMScotty on Dec 5, 2013 15:23:51 GMT
I spray almost all my minis flat black to start. Gives the model instant shading in the painting.
|
|
|
Post by sgtslag on Dec 5, 2013 15:57:16 GMT
If spray-painting is an issue, artist's Gesso works very well as a primer. It brushes on, though, so more labor intensive. It is available in White, Gray, and Black.
If you want to paint fast, and easy, with Good Enough to Game With (GEtGW) standard, do a simple block painting, followed by The Dip/Magic Wash. Fast, easy, and looks good at arm's length. Also minimizes painting time, but with acceptable results. I paint armies, usually 40+ figures per group, using simple block painting, followed by The Dip/Magic Wash; my average 'brush on figure' time, is around 5 minutes/figure, total. If you have armies to paint, and you want to game with them in this lifetime, either quit your day job, or speed paint... Cheers!
|
|
|
Post by gnomezrule on Dec 5, 2013 16:00:35 GMT
Most often black is the way to go on some brighter characters white works great. It depends on the primary method of shadowing and highlighting you are looking for. I found that using black and highlighting works great but if I am using a lot of wash after I have painted that white helps the brighter colors pop.
|
|
|
Post by algardunraven on Dec 6, 2013 21:53:42 GMT
Thanks everybody for the input.
|
|
|
Post by drathirbarrastudios on Dec 7, 2013 2:38:22 GMT
What about the Bones plastic minis? I have heard they do not take primer very well at all? and can have a tacky finish after they are all done?
|
|
|
Post by spankytaz on Dec 7, 2013 6:29:00 GMT
One of the key selling points of the Reaper Bones line was that they don't need to be primed. They have video links showing them being painted right out of the pack but personally, I'd always was a mini (metal or plastic) before hand just to remove any grease or mould-release agents that might still be on them after manufacture.
|
|
|
Post by monkeywithtacos on Dec 7, 2013 7:29:38 GMT
I always prime all my minis. On the Bones line I make sure to wash them no less than three times, with as hot as I can stand water on the last wash followed by dropping them into cold (usually with ice) water....I have found that has lessened the tackiness that can occur. I have also heard of people sticking them into the oven to heat them (and supposedly finish leeching the remaining chemicals in them, and giving them less flexibility) but I have not personally done it and cannot recommend it.
|
|
|
Post by drathirbarrastudios on Dec 7, 2013 14:43:20 GMT
I always prime all my minis. On the Bones line I make sure to wash them no less than three times, with as hot as I can stand water on the last wash followed by dropping them into cold (usually with ice) water....I have found that has lessened the tackiness that can occur. I have also heard of people sticking them into the oven to heat them (and supposedly finish leeching the remaining chemicals in them, and giving them less flexibility) but I have not personally done it and cannot recommend it. I am careful to wash any model I am about to paint. Have you tried washing them with a baking soda paste? A lady who sculpted and cast resin horses back in the 90's who also taught me about oil painting 3d figures swore by it to remove the mold release. Even my metal minis get a baking soda scrub before I prime them, its just become habit. I will have to look into the heating of them. I know they can be moved (slight moves like an arm/fixing something bent) by using boiling water and then an icewater dip. I have used candles on models made of similar material and then an icewater dip. I would absolutely love it if I could do something about the flexibility, *laughs* it drives me nucking futz!
|
|
|
Post by wilmanric on Dec 10, 2013 14:22:17 GMT
If spray-painting is an issue, artist's Gesso works very well as a primer. It brushes on, though, so more labor intensive. It is available in White, Gray, and Black. If you want to paint fast, and easy, with Good Enough to Game With (GEtGW) standard, do a simple block painting, followed by The Dip/Magic Wash. Fast, easy, and looks good at arm's length. Also minimizes painting time, but with acceptable results. I paint armies, usually 40+ figures per group, using simple block painting, followed by The Dip/Magic Wash; my average 'brush on figure' time, is around 5 minutes/figure, total. If you have armies to paint, and you want to game with them in this lifetime, either quit your day job, or speed paint... Cheers! I would LOVE to see a tutorial on your "block painting" technique. I am getting seriously bogged down with the painting of all my Bones. Any wisdom you could share would be appreciated.
|
|
|
Post by sgtslag on Dec 10, 2013 16:02:47 GMT
Wilmanric, No problem. I have a simple tutorial up, already, on how to paint plastic Army Men figures. It will give you a run-down on the basics. I will work on a fantasy figure tutorial, later this week. Here is the link, to get you started. Some caveats: do not roll a can to mix the urethane and the stain -- it won't mix it thoroughly enough, use a stir stick, or an old brush handle, or better yet, get yourself a Badger Air Brush Paint Mixer -- the bomb, Baby, even for mixing craft/acrylic paints! Reaper Bones figures do not require primer, but it helps; yellow, orange, and other paints will benefit from it, so if desired/needed, I use artist's White Gesso, an acrylic product, easy clean-up. Block painting simply means applying the paint to cover the needed area (face, boots, pants, etc.), neatly, without overlapping; start painting the most recessed areas/colos, first, working your way outwards -- keep it simple, and clean. Highlighting can be done after Dip'ing/ Magic Wash'ing, if desired, but it increases time spent on each figure. Do the assembly-line style, making rows of each casting: pick them up, one at a time, and perform the same brush strokes on each, in sequence, until done, then pick up the next casting line, and repeat; continue this approach of applying blocks of straight colors, until you finish the figures. At that point, they will appear rather blah -- that's expected, don't panic! Then apply The Dip/ Magic Wash, and they will transform dramatically. The Dip/Magic Wash can pool, in the first couple of minutes -- use the edge of a paper towel to soak up the excess, before it dries! Magic Wash will dry within 15 minutes; The Dip will take 2+ days to dry to the touch, a week, or longer, to cure all the way through -- use care for the first two weeks handling, to avoid scraping/gouging the stuff in the recesses. Use Minwax Ployshades Tudor (Black), or Royal Walnut (Dark Brown, dirty appearance), as desired. The Tudor color is usually available only from hardware stores -- don't know why, but that is the only place I can find it; Royal Walnut is available at nearly every DIY store. Cheers!
|
|
koneko
Cardboard Collector
Posts: 7
|
Post by koneko on Dec 10, 2013 16:53:35 GMT
If you're watering down your primer on Bones figures, it will not adhere well. Using a thin primer (I use a cheapo model-specific one I found on amazon, I think it starts with a V a lil pricey for my purposes but I hate using sprays, my paints are waaaay far away (like five whole feet) works well, no watering it down. I hate not priming, because you have to use unthinned paint for a first coat, and I use cheap Apple Barrel paints...
I only wash them once, and that not too particularly carefully. Never had a problem thus far. I do wash them again if I had to handle them a lot to remove flash.
My favorite sealant for Bones thus far is Martha Stewart's Satin Finish (it was on sale at michael's... my first attempts were with mod podge... don't do it. Mod podge works for every other craft I do as a sealant, not this. It will never dry past tacky). It's a lil shinier than I'd like, but I've yet to find a matte version. I had to switch to a can of matte spray on sealant that was actually more costly, and I hate spraying in my house (it's freezing and humid outside) and I feel like I'm not getting an even coat.
|
|
|
Post by thorswulf on Dec 10, 2013 18:39:55 GMT
I wash my Bones in hot, soapy, water, then carefully. You can straighten out bent bits by dipping it into near boiling hot water from a microwave. Dry fit any of the multi- piece figures before gluing it together. It might need to be whittled a bit. I have used all sorts of paint on Bones. Cheap craft store paint will work, but it may need some touch up after the first go. As far as bright colors go, I always use a white basecoat. With bones just paint the area in question white.
|
|
slurpy
Paint Manipulator
Posts: 197
|
Post by slurpy on Dec 10, 2013 23:32:05 GMT
Bones do not need to be primed, unless you are doing your first coat with a watered-down paint. The plastic is slightly hydrophobic, and Reaper formulated it to just barely play well with their Master Series Paint out of the bottle. My watered-down Citadel paints bead just like the watered-down Reaper paints, for what that's worth. I would not be surprised to see cheap craft-store paint have the beading issue straight out of the bottle, though.
For manipulating Bones, drop them in boiling water - generally within five seconds they will spring back to the original mold shape. If you want to change the orientation of a part, pull the mini out, bend it how you want, and quench the plastic (while still hot!) in a pot of ice water for at least a minute. I have experimented with spare Bones minis, and they handle extended boiling just fine. The melting point is around 140 or 150 degrees Celcius (boiling water is ~100). Also, baking them to facilitate off-gassing is probably (but not necessarily) pointless - injection molding temperatures are high above the melting point of the polymer, and the molds cool off slowly enough that there is plenty of time to allow off-gassing. To put it another way, sitting in your oven at 300 degrees Farenheit for an hour probably isn't going to do anything that the 600 degree two-hour molding process did not.
As to getting rid of release agent, baking soda will not do a darned thing - generally it's either an ether or a PTFE powder, either of which soap and water will take care of just fine. Just make sure to rinse the soap off very well before letting the mini dry. Also, the best all-around soap you can buy is Dawn - it is a fantastic surfactant, and one of the few honestly good products Procter and Gamble make.
(And if you're wondering why I know these things, it's because I am a polymer chemist)
|
|
Bael
Room Planner
Posts: 288
|
Post by Bael on Dec 11, 2013 17:31:13 GMT
I prefer grey/gray primer actually over black for most minis. I find I can see the details to paint better like necklaces, straps and such. If it's chain mail or fur area on the figure, I'll just dab those areas black and dry brush with color. The extra layer helps protect that area too. I like to do washes when done painting to fill in the dark shadows. I have so many metal minis I don't have time to paint them all and when they are grey/gray you can use them for play if needed and you can see their details where as if they're black you can't. I'm getting a Bones female Cloud Giant any day now and will prime it regardless of what Reaper claims.
|
|
|
Post by drathirbarrastudios on Dec 12, 2013 13:52:11 GMT
As to getting rid of release agent, baking soda will not do a darned thing - generally it's either an ether or a PTFE powder, either of which soap and water will take care of just fine. Just make sure to rinse the soap off very well before letting the mini dry. Also, the best all-around soap you can buy is Dawn - it is a fantastic surfactant, and one of the few honestly good products Procter and Gamble make. (And if you're wondering why I know these things, it's because I am a polymer chemist) Thank you for this tip. I have not done much with the bones other than getting the seams off so far and will keep this in mind.
|
|
|
Post by drathirbarrastudios on Dec 12, 2013 14:00:18 GMT
I prefer grey/gray primer actually over black for most minis. I find I can see the details to paint better like necklaces, straps and such. If it's chain mail or fur area on the figure, I'll just dab those areas black and dry brush with color. The extra layer helps protect that area too. I like to do washes when done painting to fill in the dark shadows. I have so many metal minis I don't have time to paint them all and when they are grey/gray you can use them for play if needed and you can see their details where as if they're black you can't. I'm getting a Bones female Cloud Giant any day now and will prime it regardless of what Reaper claims. My primer color depends on my end result, I always keep black, grey, white, and rust on hand. I would love to hear how your cloud giant comes along. I will be priming mine too, I just cant see them well enough on all white. I also think that priming helps the overall finish remain durable. I recently stripped some horses that I painted almost 20 years ago. The ones I painted before I started priming had bubbling and major gouges in the paint where the primed ones did not have the bubbling and the gouges were not as bad.
|
|