Matt
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 76
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Post by Matt on Feb 9, 2016 18:34:26 GMT
I made my first prototype piece for my desert town (set in the Sudan in the 1880s): Here are some figures for scale: Those are some 1:32 Armies in Plastic Mahdist Riflemen and some Reaper Bones undead in 28mm It's two pieces of thin cardboard on a cork base. I hot glued them together and then hot glued them to the base. The whole thing is 8" long and just short of 3" tall. Then I took some polyethylene drop cloth (very similar to the foam sheet you find in electronics packaging sometimes) and glued it down wrapping over the wall to cover the corrugation. I was hoping the fibrous feeling drop cloth would give it some texture, but it didn't. I ended up mixing some acrylic paint with some spackle (that cheap pink DAP drydex stuff that turns white when it dries) and using a big soft brush to apply it. I was trying to get some brush strokes to appear to give the wall some texture. I think I over did it and it looks like wood grain. It also doesn't really look like how plaster would be applied to mud brick, so I think instead of a brush, I should probably texture it with a fine damp sponge for more of an adobe look. I painted it white and then gave it thin washes to tan to make it dirtier the closer it is to the ground. The base was painted cinnamon brown and drybrushed tan. Oh, I also put some spackle on the base and pressed some sand into it. I tried filling in the edges with hot glue, but I did a bad job of it and accidentally flared out the card board. You can see the rough edges. Things I learned: 1) A great way to make wood texture 2) Don't deform the cardboard with the tip of the glue gun 3) Polyethylene sheet has no texture even though it feels like it to the touch 4) Use paper or newsprint to wrap rather than a plastic (save the polyethylene cloth for a river or lake).
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Matt
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 76
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Post by Matt on Feb 9, 2016 18:43:24 GMT
Here's an image of the type of thing I'm building:
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Post by jennifer on Feb 9, 2016 18:45:09 GMT
Lookin' Nice! Look forward to seeing more!
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Post by l7arkness on Feb 9, 2016 19:33:59 GMT
Very nice i would add piles of earth and tufts of vegetation to break up the line between the wall and ground, the gradient on the wall is very well done kudos
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Matt
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 76
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Post by Matt on Feb 9, 2016 20:36:38 GMT
Very nice i would add piles of earth and tufts of vegetation to break up the line between the wall and ground, the gradient on the wall is very well done kudos Yes, I'm definitely going to add piles of debris and vegetation. The other thing I discovered is that paint adheres terribly to that polyethylene sheet. It was nice to check out the material and the drop cloth only cost me $3, but it's a total bust. A friend of mine is painting his place soon, so I'll just give the rest of the drop cloth to him. I'm starting my second prototype in a few hours.
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Matt
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 76
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Post by Matt on Feb 10, 2016 7:29:39 GMT
Prototype 2. I like how this turned out. Instead of using the poly sheet, I used newsprint. I think the sponge blotting made a much better texture. I think I'm going to move forward with this approach for all the buildings in the town. I also just realized how big everything is going to be in 1:32/54mm. This wall is just short of three inches tall and 8 inches long and represents about 20 feet of wall. I'm already getting card board to build out of, but I may need to also think about making custom boxes for transporting the terrain to and from my local monthly gaming club. Next up? Painting scheme test figures for both the Mahdist riflemen and the colonial British infantry.
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Post by jennifer on Feb 10, 2016 7:52:04 GMT
I feel like I'm there Awesome work!
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Post by l7arkness on Feb 10, 2016 14:53:14 GMT
Very nice like the shrubs adds a lot to the walls
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Post by Sleepy Hollow Mike on Feb 12, 2016 7:15:11 GMT
Looks great!
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Matt
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 76
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Post by Matt on Feb 12, 2016 7:30:51 GMT
I finished my mahdist test figure. I also got a lamp for better light. The texture of my walls is now shown in detail. Below you'll notice the circles caused by the ejector pins when the figure was made. I have some putty to fill those in on future miniatures, but I'm not sure I will. We'll see. As these are plastic army men type figures, you'll notice they just fill in a bunch of plastic between the rifle and the body. I just painted half of it white like his clothes and the rest black to make it look like a shadow. Some people carve them out and repair with putty as needed, but that's time better spent on building my town. Dumb things I did: Primed the miniature with black gesso when I knew it was going to be white with bright colours. I got some Vallejo surface primer in white for the rest of these I'm going to paint. I did a wash and then didn't wait long enough for it to dry before I varnished the figure. So the varnish turned grey. I removed as much as possible before it dried but I had to go back and touch up the paint here and there. The black line on his head dress is too stark. I don't think I'll fix this one, but in the future I'm going to probably do that particular line in grey rather than black. Maybe when I'm doing the grey wash on future figures I'll grab this guy and tone down that line. Awesome things I did: The bright colours and black lining really works on these toy soldier type figures. And it's a fast way to paint. Eyes. I usually not bother, but this time I actually painted the eyes of the miniature. The effect is subtle, but it's there. I also found some cool pictures of their uniforms in various museums. Well, actually it looks like they were unique and there wasn't really a requirement for them to be all the same, so "uniform" isn't really the right word. On the plus side it means I can't really mess up in terms of what colour I make the various squares and triangles. {--A couple uniforms for those who care--}
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Post by Sleepy Hollow Mike on Feb 12, 2016 7:41:39 GMT
I used to paint 1/72 scale toy soldiers and I found that the plastic was just the worst when it came to holding paint
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Matt
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 76
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Post by Matt on Feb 12, 2016 7:43:38 GMT
It's all about flexible primers. Gesso works great and the Vallejo stuff is pretty good too. I've never had a softer plastic figure flake as long as I kept every single thing flexible. Flexible primer, paint and varnish.
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Post by sgtslag on Feb 12, 2016 19:34:35 GMT
I paint plastic Army Men figures for gaming. I use the plastic's own color, when possible (it usually works for their main uniform color, so I only need to paint the other bits of the figure). I also only do simple block painting, followed by The Dip: solvent-based, flexible urethane; usually Royal Walnut color -- dark brown, gives a 'down in the trenches', look to them. I follow this with a matte clear coat to dull the shine. What really helps, for me, is to base them! On a decorated base, they look much better than they do with just their molded, plastic base -- and they never fall down! I use 2" -square bases. I was cutting them out of vinyl floor tiles, but the wood glue for the sand texture/dressing warps the bases, as it dries, curling up the outside edges towards the figure in the center (it gets much worse, weeks later...). I need to change glues, to one which is non-shrinking, as I really love the versatility of cutting up a vinyl floor tile for a base of any size/shape needed. I swirl my bases in a blend of three colors of sand: tan (natural color), and two shades of green. Then after that dries, I apply watered-down PVA (again, may need to change this to a non-shrinking adhesive). This gives a mottled, grass-like appearance, which is pleasing to the eye, and it works on nearly every size base I've tried, thus far. Just some ideas to consider, or ignore. Cheers!
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Matt
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 76
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Post by Matt on Feb 13, 2016 8:54:14 GMT
I paint plastic Army Men figures for gaming. I use the plastic's own color, when possible (it usually works for their main uniform color, so I only need to paint the other bits of the figure). I also only do simple block painting, followed by The Dip: solvent-based, flexible urethane; usually Royal Walnut color -- dark brown, gives a 'down in the trenches', look to them. I follow this with a matte clear coat to dull the shine. This is a really interesting idea. I'm noticing that while some of these figures are the right colors (these Mahdists are white and their majority final color is white) others I have are all wrong. Like colonial British infantry in yellow. I think I'm going to give leaving the white alone on these a try. I'll just brush on the gesso or vallejo primer on the areas I want to paint. I don't know if I'm going to go with the solvent based wash over them though. I've done minwax in the past but I've been enjoying the non solvent based approaches. I have a heavy acrylic varnish and then ink I could add to get a water based approximation. I really like the idea of just painting the skin, rifle, sandals, and the coloured patches and that's it. I'll give it a try. What really helps, for me, is to base them! On a decorated base, they look much better than they do with just their molded, plastic base -- and they never fall down! I got some inch and a half or so washers to use. I thought about leaving the Mahdist as is on their cast on base, but it really won't look as good as a square or circle. I swirl my bases in a blend of three colors of sand: tan (natural color), and two shades of green. Then after that dries, I apply watered-down PVA (again, may need to change this to a non-shrinking adhesive). This gives a mottled, grass-like appearance, which is pleasing to the eye, and it works on nearly every size base I've tried, thus far. Just some ideas to consider, or ignore. Cheers! Any chance you've taken pictures of these some time? It sounds like a neat way to base things.
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Post by sgtslag on Feb 13, 2016 14:34:17 GMT
I'll give you a few photo's of some bases, as well as some examples of my Army Men painting technique, as it was applied to Cave Men figures, now functioning as Hill Giants in my fantasy games. These are Mage Knight figures, rebased on vinyl floor tile material (Wizard with staff), and plasticard (dual-wielding figure). Both have been Dip'ed with Minwax. Two 1/72 Caesar Goblins riding Prince August molds' wolves. They are each mounted on thin plasticard. I painted on Wood Glue using a $0.03 throw-away brush, dipped them into the sand mixture, let that dry, then coated the bases with Scenic Cement. Their bases also have some magnet strip adhered beneath, to secure them in a metal tray, for safer transport. Here are the plastic, injection molded, Cave Men figures, 54mm. They had their bits painted which were not the plastic's color: weapons, loin cloths, and hair. I also mixed in some model RR ballast, which is the larger, rock-like debris, on their bases. They were Dip'ed after painting the bits, sans primer, using normal craft paints. These boys were painted more than 7 years ago, and they've seen plenty of handling in miniatures games, as well as RPG's. The figure on the left is based on unpainted, clear Lexan plastic, and the figure on the right is mounted on white plasticard. Here is a shot of their bases. No warping can be seen on these 1"-square bases: vinyl floor tile material on the left, plasticard on the right. Here you can see that the plasticard base has, in fact, warped a bit. The Wood Glue, as it dries, contracts, pulling the plasticard towards the center. It is much worse on vinyl floor tile bases... I either need to use a non-shrinking glue, or use a different base material. Here is a link to a slideshow of the photo's above, as well as a few more. The slideshow will give you a better view if you maximize it to full screen size. Cheers!
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Matt
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 76
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Post by Matt on Feb 13, 2016 22:16:34 GMT
I'm going for a bright colours with stark blacklining as a style for this project, so I probably won't go for an approach that gives them a "down in the trenches" look. I think the fundamental idea of using the colour of the plastic under a wash and varnish is sound though. I'll just need to figure out a way to use it that makes the end result look clean and bright with stark shading.
I'll probably try a watercolour wash right on the plastic. Then when it's dry, use a damp swab to clean off all the plastic leaving it only in the recesses. Then I'll brush primer all the non-white, paint the colours and then do a super heavy varnish and then some matte. Maybe I'll have to black line manually for a few things as well.
I'm not surprised that hill giant has withstood tons of use and not lost any paint. Urethane is tough stuff and craft paint is super flexible. It's like all binder and as minimum pigment as possible to keep the price down, so it's quite tough and flexible. I've heard people over many years talk about how soft plastic doesn't hold paint and usually its people who haven't done their research and missed simple things like washing their figures with soap first or people who prime with something like an automotive primer that dries hard and can't flex. It's true that other materials have paint stick to them way, way better though.
I have a faux-suede table cloth that I'm using as a drop cloth for the game and the cinnamon brown, tan and yellow green flock really works well on it. I think a natural unpainted sand color might be too jarring on that cloth, but I'll give it a try.
I've discovered my washers aren't quite big enough. If I cut away most of the moulded on base I could make them mostly fit, but it's not ideal. I might just mount them with the front flush and let the back leg extend off the washer.
I need to go get some materials, but the crafting begins tonight. I've also got my base pieces for 9 buildings so I'll be cutting a lot of cardboard tonight. I'll make sure to take WIP shots this time.
Added: The watercolor wash just beads on the surface. I was hoping it would work because it would help me see the details on the bright white plastic to make painting easier. So I think I have to paint the colours first, varnish the figure then wash and blackline and then matte.
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Matt
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 76
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Post by Matt on Feb 14, 2016 3:13:41 GMT
Construction has begun. The first thing I did was cut 8 pieces of cardboard. Four of them were shortened by twice the width of the cardboard. This was done so they can interlock thusly I cut windows and doors and hot glued it all together. For the base I used a canvas covered board from the dollar store. I actually think card board would have been fine. I have more of these so I'm going to keep using them, but I think they might be overkill. Here's the structure with all the walls attached. Next step is to wrap it all in newsprint in sort of a not shreded paper mache wrap to cover the corrugations .
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Post by stroezie on Feb 14, 2016 9:49:08 GMT
looking good! Quick tip: Undercoat the houses in magnetic paint. The metal filings give it a sandy texture and you can make detachable signs and other details mounted on magnetic paper. I did something similar for my 15mm village here dmscraft.proboards.com/thread/1024/stroezies-magnetised-villageIf you're going to have big terrain pieces it's best to make them as versatile as possible ;-))
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Matt
Tool Gatherer
Posts: 76
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Post by Matt on Feb 14, 2016 10:29:07 GMT
I'll definitely look into it. I like the idea of being able to click on awnings and signs and shutters and whatnot. Thanks for the idea! Okay, I went and looked at your thread. It's making me rethink everything I'm doing here. The only thing I'd miss out on is the ability to place figures inside the buildings as the doors and walls would no longer be openings. I've got some thinking to do. I started gluing newsprint over the corrugation. Basically I paint glue on then press the paper over and then paint on 50/50 glue/water. The top will get it too. With the spackle paint combination I'll be putting on for texture the lines don't end up showing. As you can see there's also a small gap between some of the card board. I've noticed my small low temp glue gun just isn't hot enough to get a good amount of glue on a big surface like this and have it still be hot enough to get them completely flush before it hardens. A friend is going to lend me a big high temp one to try, but I'll soldier on until then. Maybe I'm using too much glue so by the time I'm done applying it the first stuff I put on is cooling too much. Maybe less is more here. All the card board will get news print glued to it. I cut a sheet 11 inches x 4.75 and it went all the way to the floor on the inside wrapped over went down the outside and even wrapped under the base. I'm not sure how necessary this is, but I loved how well the spackle-glue stuck to the newsprint on my test wall. It also seems to make it a lot stronger.
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Post by sgtslag on Feb 14, 2016 14:00:43 GMT
I would recommend turning one sheet of cardboard 90-degrees to the other. This will put the grain at a right-angle to the other sheet, preventing warpage. Painting the cardboard with a water-based glue (PVA) will tend to warp it...
I suggest cutting doors and windows out. In my Army Men games, this allows Line of Sight (LOS) checks to be made more easily: eye balling it, or by stretching a string between figures. We often take advantage of cover provided by doorways and windows, for shooting. It also creates a fun visual with troops peeking out.
I love your wrapping technique for hiding the corrugation. Wish I had thought of that back in the 90's. It really dresses the buildings up, quickly, and easily. Cheers!
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